Police officer goes Deep Cover With Domestic Terrorists

this is things police see firstand accounts with your host Steve goldwelcome to the podcast at interviews active and retired police officers about their most intense bizarre and sometimeshumorous moments on the job it is I old Ginger face coming at you thank you forbeing here everybody thank you for um all the all the listening that’s going on all the um binge listening I alwaysappreciate that and thank you for all the recent follows I’m trying to build up the social media around the podcasttrying to get the word out I’ve been at I’ve been at the podcast for a while now four years and um have not been the bestabout kind of getting the word out there so uh the natural growth is has beengood and steady but um I’m trying to do a better job at letting people know about so so more people can hear thethese incredible stories from the men and women law enforcement and you know get an appreciation for what it is they actually do so I appreciate thatappreciate all the uh patreon support we just recently did a live stream uh lastweek it was really fun um people showed up interacted with us had a great timeand that will be um in the future all the live streams will be live and available to everybody and then afterwards they’ll be posted to apodcast um uh like an RSS feed to just patreon and also the the video will beavailable only to um patreon members so if you really love the show and you always have and you listen to a bunch ofepisodes and you want to show me uh how much you how much you love it patreon’sthe place to do it in the show notes so um today’s uh guest is uh is a great one I’m I’m very excited to ask him a bunchof questions um not just the the big questions I normally ask but the guy’s got uh a really really incredible umcareer behind him he was uh in law enforcement for 23 years about 15 of those he worked in some type ofundercover capacity he worked two very long-term deep undercover cases one embedded with the mafia and the otherwith domestic terrorists for a total of three years and received the medal of valor for his work without further Adolet me bring on the great Matt pitcher Matt what’s going on I’m not sure aboutgreat but I appreciate it anyway ah too late I already I’ve already looked into your stuff my man um so yeah I’ve seen alot of the stuff popping up you were there was um they covered one of your cases on A&E andyou’re kind of um you’re kind of popping off right now which is great especially for like you get out of law enforcementyou’re like I gota get some kind of trickle of something from somewhere else um why not if you can if you can make itif you had a great exciting career I mean that’s a no-brainer just package bottle up that magic and let it out youknow yeah absolutely like I mean I wasn’t smart enough to do it directly following my law enforcement career Idid the whole you know on what now that knee-jerk reaction yeah um and then uhsome other people were smarter than me and said hey let me tell you what you need to do and they got on the rightpath we need those people in our lives I always say that to people that are like hey why don’t you do this I’m like I’m just a dumb cop what are you telling meexactly tell me how to do it I mean you’ve seen the dumb stuff I’ve done in my career I can’t be that smart to dothat stuff so I I noticed on you know on Instagram you’re you haven’t been inthere all that long and your following getting is is great you’re it’s really building up I mean when you do a careerthat involves Deep Cover and you’re you’re kind of living another life howlong was it before you felt safe to like actually make a social media account to actually put yourself out there you knowwas it a long time or so what’s today’s date um so I feel in danger at all timesyeah and it’s funny because that’s like I get that question nonstop now right umand I don’t know if there’s a specific time like so the last Deep Cover case I did finishedin September of 2 well technically the first case finished after my second casein 2014 um I went and keep in mind therewas some mental health stuff I just I wasn’t good about talking about it for a long time sure um but then also yeah youdidn’t want anybody to know um and you don’t know how people are going to respond to it whether they’re going tobe taken back by you or be accepting of the kind of work he didI’m a sovereign citizen I don’t agree with that exactly right yeah that andyou know wait so you basically pretended to be somebody else portrayed people who you were close friends with um and nowI’m supposed to trust you and be your friend yeah okay yeah it’s a legitimate reaction you can’t argue it too muchyeah but uh soI didn’t besides my wife I didn’t tell anybody reallyanything about the cases they knew obviously you disappear people know something’s up um I didn’t tell anybodyabout the cases besides yes I did Deep Cover assignments until about2022 um oh and yeah and social media wise so Facebook I had really lockeddown I did a little bit of a presence on Facebook because I kept it pretty far locked down I mean it’s still kind oflocked down um just because I want to keep in contact with my brothers and sisters who were still back in CharlotteNorth Carolina and I wanted to um but keep it somewhatsafe as I could so I was very picky about who I was friends with yeah and and just be normal right like have asocial media account like everybody else is like seeing everybody’s lives yeah exactly like it’s funny because untilthen you know the only pictures you find of me on social media did not have my real name attached to them yeah becauselike when you work and that’s one thing that’s terrifying about Deep Cover casesis you know normal undercover work there’s no reason for your picture to be taken you don’t have to worry about thatside of thing when you’re you know now becoming best friends with these people and you’re spending 247 with them youcan’t sit there and say no no don’t take my picture all the time you’re supposed to be this guy’s best friend and so mypicture was all over social media from other people taking it yeah that’s a problem yeah that’swhat I’m I worry in the future that I mean I think it may already be this waythat that working at case that way which is long run probably healthier not to umbut it’s not going to happen anymore because you just can’t I mean thing of facial recognition now yeah superdangerous um yeah and people are there we I was a part of some investigationone of them with a biker biker club and U motorcycle club and these freaking guys were putting stuff on theirInstagrams like stolen property and stuff and it was like wow you think you would know better like you’re a criminallike you belong to a criminal motorcycle gang let’s let’s try and use a littleCommon Sense unbelievable yeah that I mean that isthat is is crazy man and you were throughout your um Deep Cover ones wereyou um married or did was it the same woman you were with the whole time yeahso my wife is you know we talked about this a little bit ahead time she she’s an Angel umlegitimately I have no clue why she’s with me um maybe she’s not as smart as Ithink she is I’m not sure but I uh so when I did the first Deep Coverassignment we had had a six-month-old uh wow and I and IDisappeared yeah and and just prior to disappearingI had blown my knee out and uh had to have ACL surgery from playing footballand so she was already taking care of him for the most part for those four months while I got healed a little bitand so I go back to work and then immediately fall into this and well I’m going to be be con for a couple years ofcourse I didn’t know it was going to be a couple years I said be gone I’m not really sure wow the length on this thatdude that’s a that’s a crazy thing to wrap your mind around because I mean most women um when they marry a cop theyunderstand like all right there’s going to be screwed up hours he’s going to see some screwed up things he’s going to bein danger like it’s going to be a lot most women probably don’t don’t Bank onhe’s going to be a a deep cover informant or um detective and I’m not going to see him for years I mean that’sI mean did you when you started as a copper was this your goal or did youkind of kind of back into it no this was and it I tell this part because it’shilarious and also shows how dumb I am um I started as a failedactor like so I was going to college and um at the time my parents lived inWilmington North Carolina which was not far from where I went to college and atthat time Wilmington North Carolina actually had a big movie studio and they filmed Dawson’s Creek there right abunch of movies well I learned that hey you get paid $50 a day to be an extra ina movie and get to be in a movie I thought well that’s a no-brainer that be fun for a kid hell yeah yeah exactlyright so I I go to the casting place and the L there are like well have you ever thought about acting and I was like wellno but I’m not opposed yeah and she handed me a list of agents and said heythese are the ones that we work with consistently I think you’d be good give them a call so I ended up getting hookedup with two agents who were really cool good people um and at that time you know I was veryearly 20s late teens early 20s um and they’re like well the one agent who Igot close to was like I think you’d have a lot of success out in La we’ already gone up to New York a little bit shegoes I think you’d have a lot of success out La would you move out there I’m going to set you up with some people to talk to some other agents and get outthere um well you know young and dumb why not so one year I left the college Idecided forget I’m gonna go give this a shot I’m gonna uh make my debut if youwill so I take uh my mom was nice enough to let me borrow her car drive it thewhole way across the country to La I love it um you’re not gonna real you know La is really expensive to live at Iheard that I heard Whispers of that yeah so I get out there the only place I can afford is this rundown Motel ownedby a family in Compton oh my gosh again young and dumb which I don’tknow if the dumb part ever changes but anyway yeah I was at least young white boy in Compton yeah what can go wrongthere too right so that’s where I’m staying and Meanwhile my brother’salready become a cop back in wilington and growing up IID always you know I was interested in the CIA becoming a spyuntil you really start to do some reading there you find out um like police work 99% of it is paperwork andthat they don’t really actually do a lot of spying it’s more informant type select few the rest are admin exactlyyeah and if you really want to get to do it you better be able to speak a lot of languages um not really my forte eitherso that kind of was like well that’s that’s probably not gonna happen um my brother meanwhile became policeofficer in Wilmington North Carolina he’s telling me about the foot chases he gets in and stuff like that and then alittle bit about some of the guys that work undercover that he knows and I also um and I forget whichbook it is but I get to read a little bit about Deep Cover type stuff where you do the longterm undercover cases uhand I was blown away like instantly like that that’s what I’m going to do ummeanwhile I’m out in La well there was an earthquake at that time I was out in La at Joshua tree and it shook Comptonand I called my brother up that night he’s like heyy what do I do there’s an earthquake and he’s like I think you’reI think you’re supposed to get in the bathtub or something come home yeah that’s horribleadvice um so you know we got the Aftershock and I was like well screw it I’m just gonna go outside so I gooutside and people start shooting off guns I was like screw it I’m gonna go back inside oh my God by the next day I was like you know what this is notworking for me and put into put into cmpd the Charlotte meberg Police Department um literally I think it thevery next day and you don’t get hired right away there’s a whole process but put that and took off um yeah and then Ithink it was one or two months later I got the conditional offer and started the road nice and you’re like that’s mypath in from I mean that’s a great place to start too if you’re look you’re looking for Specialties because it’s ait’s a big Metro agency there’s G to be a lot of options for you to take exactlyand it was funny when I did my interview with them they asked well do you know what you want to do in an apartment no hesitation absolutely I want to be anundercover in Vice and narcotics I want to be on the SWAT team and I want to be a chaplain and the guy like froze for asecond he’s like all right well I get the first two but I’ve never heard the third one thrown in there too wellthat’s what I want yeah I want I want to eject people from their bodies and give them the blessingexactly right you got to do what you got to do yeah dude that’s beautiful man I love that that’s really cool good friendof mine um Ken Royal was U LAPD copper he’s retired now and he’s on the podcast once in a while he was a chaplain for awhile at LAPD and um I think it was a lot I think it was um a lot uh to handlewith like the amount of like funerals and stuff that were going on and you know that’s that’s a that’s a I meanit’s a very um worthwhile Endeavor and I’m a Christian myself so I think it’s Ithink it’s awesome but that that would be a lot if you pulled all three of those off how’s one for three is that prettygood going hey you could be you could be Lo I don’t know where you are now but you could be um if you’re if you’re in asmaller town and they don’t have a chaplain you could be the local chaplain you know they do have one but I’ve actually thought on coming on board thatlike just volunteering because like right now um because I retired from the agency but I’m still um I’m a reservejust so I can do negotiations as one of their hostage negotiators um but Ithought about doing that as well it’s funny you said that yeah dude that’s that’d be freaking amazing that’s awesome what a good way to serve youknow yep very very cool so Matt you you get on um Charlotte B Charlotte BGCharlotte mecklinburg um you do some years in Patrol and I definitely want to get into the undercover stuff but whenyou were when you a young patrolman can you remember the first call you went to that like really got your blood pumpingyour first hot call so I can tell you the first time I ran blue lights and and you’ll probablyrelate to this totally is it was a foot chase right guy calls in hey I got one running um 28 Street Graham right Ithink that was the exact location so I’m not even getting to drive it’s my first night I’m with my training officer onthe very first night and so he’s driving but you know how instantaneous you canliterally feel the adrenaline just kind of go throughout your body like all right it’s it’s game on it’s time toroll yeah um and so this happens so much of the time andit’s so disappointing you know you get those blue lights on you’re flying that way because it’s one of your boys so you’re going to get there as fast aspossible um safely and you get within that half mile and 72 he’s under arrestyou know he’s in cuffs it’s over and it’s just that oh man I didn’t even get to make it there yeah you got all thoseall those chemicals running through your blood yep and then that was the firstnight the second night with this training officer was probably the next exciting thing and Iwas getting the drive this night and he had me do a traffic stop uh andall the warning signs that you learn were there I was my second idle on the job so I was able to miss at least 99%of them uh so get out of the car approach the car and I’m trying to doeverything textbook you know get that fingerprint on the back sure check the car out really well on the way up anduh he hands me an ID card when I get up there it doesn’t look like him atall so being the smart guy I am or wave to meet my or my fto at the back of the carso he can tell me what would be the logical Next Step instead of saying hey buddy get out of the car right um so hetells me well we should probably go ahead and get him out of the car so we can talk to him and get him away from a moving object yeah sounds like thatsounds like solid advice I’ll do that um so I go back up there and keep in mindsecond night on the job Academy you know we weren’t we were I say militaristic Academy very you getyelled at some nothing like the military though I don’t I don’t want to compare it I mean it’s not they try to make a little bit like boot camp but it’s notnearly as stringent I would say um but we did PT every morning you had to look sharp you had to have creases you had tohave your your boots better have been completely polished yeah mine was the same like paramilitary type yeah exactyeah uh so I still had my academ shoes I wore the baits which you know look greatI mean baits are very sharp looking shoes y um did I mention it had been raining this night some so I get him tothe back of the car and I’m trying you know textbook textbook I got this um I did great in the Academy I should havethis down pat I get the way they taught us to hold his hands behind his back when we’re doing a search or pattingdown for a weapon uh so I mean I’m I’m flying I’m doing great I’ve got thisnailed and uh I didn’t tell him to spread his feet though I let him keep his feet pretty close together um thiswas the last time I ever let somebody keep their feet pretty close together so I go to pad him and all of a sudden Idon’t know if he must have just slipped a little bit or something but he kicks me right in my shin pretty good kick andthen he takes off running see you later I I literally look at my fto and I’m like he’s like wellnow usually when we chase [Laughter] him so also I was pretty proud of myselfat this point I was one of the faster ones in in my Academy class um I had good speed you know played football fora lot of years that kind of thing so was looking forward to this my fto was you know 20 years older than me um so Ishould smoke him this isn’t going to be an issue um again did I mention it had rain that night and I was wearing baitshoes with slick so I have my mic pack on of course um so that all ourinteraction is recorded not video just audio back in that day but we take off running and i’me of myfto no problem I should have this guy in no time and then I slip and I slide andI fall and then sorry about that um and then Ifound something else that they never had taught us in the academy and that is when you’re chasing a guy and you cometo a fence and he goes over that fence how exactly do you get over that fenceuh yeah with your junk on and all that exactly my fto no problem you know hedoes it the way that I then well he caught me right after that how you do it where you just put it like right here on your chest and kind of do the roll andlet the the vest take the brunt yep um that’s not how I did it I you throwthose feet up above her exactly right it’s just a hurdle it’s no big deal I’llbe fine only I’m not fine and so I slam on the ground again I must have fallenfive times in a 200 yard foot chase oh uniforms all jacked up yep my my ftocaught him I think he already had the handcuffs on by the time I get there I’m completely humiliated and U he says wellthis is a great training experience let’s go back and listen to the um the VHS and all that because I mean thefront camera records the or the video but then you can hear the whole foot chase all you hear is constantly andthen get back up get the whole entire time for for some reason he thought itwas also important for the rest of the squad to hear that video of course yeah good training moment to share with everybody exactly so that was my first Iwould say hot call like where I had the adrenaline going and chasing somebody I love making a fool of myselfat the same time it’s classic yeah that’s class like Bill uh Bill Broadway a buddy of mine who came on um he uhwhen he was in field training they pulled up the guy that for a foot chase and his uh his fto just looked at himsaid get him like he was the K9 you know you to get out of the car and start running exactly it’s it’s just so funnybecause you don’t yeah it’s a new world at that point right you know you just not accustom to it yep I remember Iremember those feelings too when it’s I remember like the first like the first couple times you go hands- on with somebody like it’s time to Muckle themkind of like yep you know it’s it’s a weird thing to take somebody’s Freedom away and and and like to grab their armsbecause before you do anything else you gotta you got to touch them you know and just being with the the senior guys thatjust you know see how they do it they you know they give and I what I gleaned from it was like most guys would givethe guy the opportunity and then when they didn’t then it was like full blastit was like they wouldn’t give him a chance it was like bam against the car wrenching arms like you can’t like dothis like come on like grab their arm impishly exactly you kind of but that’s really weird to do when you’ve neverdone it you know what I mean it’s it’s kind of like you feel like like kind of like a you know I don’t know you’re justkind of unsure yourself so I love I love these early stories people have cuz they’re they’re just so funny it’s justeverybody goes through it um so Matt you you get broken in how long before youget into detectives so and I always say this with a Cav likedetectives I went it was 2007 is when I switched over to Vice and narcotics Iwas on a street crimes unit though doing undercover and working at forancestarting in 2004 I believe it was um so that wasmy start in undercover well besides being I started in the police in 2000um I had come up with an idea because like I said I knew from the get-go what I wanted to do so I was like I wasfortunate I got to go to the most violent area in Charlotte so I was going to get my opportunities to learn um andI was going to do everything I could could to point myself into Vice of Narcotics and again I don’t condone thisthis is this was stupid on my part my sergeant messed up by letting me do it um and I always cave it because it wasdumb I was I was out of fto maybe six months and this was real big when community policing was I mean I knowcommunity policing is still very big but this was when they were using the Sarah Model A lot I don’t even remember exactly what the Cel stood for gettingall kinds of money from the federal government for it and exactly exactly so they all they wanted us to come up withthese Sarah models so I came up with one and this was you know I know things have changed a lot today but you know how youhad the corner dealers all over the place back in the day uh well that was huge in our area so I came up with a smodel that I was going to buy drugs from these Corner dealers and a marketer thenwould come around the corner and pick them up um kind of thing obviously I wanted to buy the dope and I had somebuddies that I went through the academy with that wanted to also get foot chases with me and catch these bad guys I meanit’s what we did most nights so we just added the UC element into it um so I did that and that was my first experienceinto the other Under carer World honestly it’s amazing I didn’t get myself killed the dumb like I had notrain there was no reason in the world I should have been allowed to do that or doing that wow uh Good Luck Good Luckover good tactics in that case completely yeah cuz you’re kind of out there in the wind um yeah yeah that’sthat’s crazy man um so were you at this point were you were able to like grow your hair out a little bit and do all that or did you have to be on patrolsometimes I had to be on patrol still so I couldn’t really let the hair go Ium I went to Goodwill bought some clothes bought the fake earrings that you couldn’t tell were fake uh which Ididn’t have my ears pierced at that point like I never I didn’t get my ears pierced until I did it rise somenarcotics and didn’t really want to get them pierced then but the one with the first case it was going to be necessaryso is what it is right so you your first case was with the the mafia right isItalian mafia so there was Italian mafia I wasuh sponsored by the Greek Mafia the Greek Mafia yeah which they to me arebeyond the scariest because they’re so much smarter than the rest um they’ll never get all their their whole gamepplayay is extortion and political corruption um and that’s exactly what they havehad have in Charlotte uh they basically if you want to open up a club or anything you had todo it through them and you had to pay them um to make sure everything wentokay that permits went okay uh that you got everything okay that nothing happened to your place really yeah wowand how how did they how did the Greek Mafia get established down there so there was a pretty large Greekpopulation in Charlotte starting back I think it was either 70s or 80s umand give credit what credits do um very smart the way everything came about theystarted opening up a couple clubs in uptown Charlotte and while doing thisyou know they also opened up a bunch of restaurants um take this as you will Ican tell you no cop ever has to pay in a Greek restaurant and I don’t think it’sbecause maybe people are over really nice but I I don’t really think that’s the case yeah greasing those Wheelsexactly and that also getting into politics and getting close friends in inpolitical places um to get free reign free control so how do they how do theyhow do you get in so this case actually and I started acase totally by accident and um again something I wouldn’t ever do on purposeI so I blew out my knee we talked about that for a second earlier I come back and especially Vice and narcotics whenyou come back if you’re gone like I was gone four months so my informant either went to jail or you know moved on tosomebody else who could continue to pay them right so I’m kind a little bit starting from scratch except for I mean I had three informant that had been withme early on in my career um but they couldn’t they didn’t have anything at that time I had just started to buycocaine from a stripper before I got hurt um so you know trying to drown up somebusiness I just called her up and see if she would uh if she would deal with me still and sure enough shewould and I’m I set up to buy an eightball right out the gate which aneightball is 3.5 grams for anybody that doesn’t know of cocaine um very small amount it’s kind of we consider testingwater to make sure everything is good so I buy this eightball from her and I meet up with her and you know drug deals arenormally the most stressful thing in the whole world right everybody’s judging everybody robbery police what’s going tohappen um and it’s they’re they’re fast it’s not like drug deals take a longtime everybody’s in a hurry to get this done and get out sure so I meet with herand she has me get in her car and she’s got the cocaine in a in a Newport cigarette pack hands me the cocaine andthen begins to give me her life story like just the oddest thing in the world not to mention we’re we’re meetingin the richest part of Charlotte um which is obviously not very common for drun deals either right and I justlike I’m I’m taking back a little bit trying to figure things out she’s telling me how she’s in school right nowshe’s going to become a nurse and just going on and on and on I literally have to at one point Hey listen I got I gottago um I got a thing I got yeah something yeah um I was like you know I I may wanta lot more this is just testing and I forgot to men so I knew who her supplier was and that was my real Target her mainsupplier was a who’s who drug dealer that I wanted really really bad I knewhe SS with celebrities I knew he goes up into the Kila level it was everything I wantedum so she was like yeah no problem and in Charlotte we would always call ita yak basically which is you set up to have dinner or something with the drug dealer to talk you know business andhave a plan laid out everybody gets comfortable with other one you’re talking about larg amounts you don’t don’t do it for small amounts but if you’re getting ounces to kilo levelsometimes you’ll do a yak um so I end up giving her call later on saying hey dope’s good I like it um let’s gettogether and talk and see about how much we can get on the plate kind of thingand she said sure and she names a restaurant that’s right by where we met this last time in the expensive area ofCharlotte I didn’t know the restaurant didn’t think too much paron on yeahexactly might as well so I think it was a day later or twodays later we go to meet and we’re at this restaurant and of course I have you know close cover guys around me and allthat um and I’m sitting down and I’m waiting for her to arrive and she showsup and my close cover team catches her before I do and she’s wearing a veryvery oh speaking of which the restaurant I’m at that I’m sitting at is I’m like wow this is an expensive restaurant this is pretty niceso I was taken off by that but hey I’m not going to pay for the meal so what do I care I can thank the city laterexactly but um she shows up gets out of the car and my phone’s blowing up before I evensee her and she is wearing this extremely nice white dress and she isdressed to the nine and I Glimpse at the text messages coming into my flip phoneand it’s I can’t believe you’re on a date you’re using City funds to go out on a date and I’m like you’ve got and Isee her and I’m like you’ve got to be kidding me this is not happening right now um so she sits down it takes all thefive minutes to realize that yes to her this is a date oh boy and so you know myheart’s like this sucks um so I was like I figured well the case is over I’mgonna when this is over I’m gonna sign warrant on her and then go approach her somewhere and see if I can flip her that’s the best case scenario I got andI’m not hopeful about that like I’m pretty dejected at this Point um andthen I decid to have a little fun since I figured well this is all screwed up so she starts asking what I do and I useI’ve always I always use the same close backstory um I always use that I’m an orphan uh just because I want to closeoff records to anything when I was younger yeah it’s kind of perfect yeah so I go with that and that I’m a trustfund I invested the money and ended up becoming a billionaire um just which was thedumbest thing like I never do that if I thought anything had potential um but I was guess I was just in one of thosehaving fun yeah exactly um well I guessI’m a better liar than I realized because she bought it hookline and sinker and I should have also thought out thefact that well she’s a stripper they have a tendency to really like money and if they see a guy that apparently has aton of money they’re going to latch on that much harder um and that’s prettymuch what happened happened and we get out of that and end up havingI have a conversation with my sge and stuff like that and he had the idea like well why do we have to why do we have toend this right away and I had also she also invited me to a party um that Ifigured you know the other guy I want to get to was G to be at this party how how do your wife feel about this story nowoh she laughs about it like the girl turns out to be literally crazyuh but we obviously we brainstorm we decided to bring in another UC to helpdeal with this because of her attraction towards me so we bring in another femalewho is my sister um and anytime I am around this girl my sister is therewhich took a lot of explaining a lot of times while my sister always had to be there but it it worked and long storylike the stripper ended up not really caring about being with me she wanted everybody else to think that we weretogether and for me to think that we’re her I’m with her so that she can get all kinds of money and I can pay for everything yeah sugar daddy exactly soit it turned out to be beautiful for the case because she’s telling everybody all her stripper friends oh yeah I’msleeping with him so word gets out to you know everybody the Greeks um all the other drug dealers and everything elseso oh well he’s definitely not a cop that so that part worked perfect it was a little more tricky later that we had to totally get her out of the pictureum that was a little bit complicated and frustrating but we were able to do it umso she then introduces me to a guy named Marcos and it’s Marcos friend of theGreeks is literally how everybody knows him and Marcus first hits it off with mysister really well he seemed to have a little attraction thereand then I get to talk to Marcus and Marcus I hit it off and I would end upspending the next two years day and night with Marcos um weird his familyyeah oh my gosh that must be so weird dude to like to to live I mean I’m surea million people have asked you or said this you but to live the double life you know what I mean like like you’rebecause you how you’re human you’re gonna have you’re GNA like see the good traits in this guy and be like there’s alot of things I like about this guy you know what I mean oh totally yeah Marklike Marcus and I had a great time together like I mean legitimately I enjoyed hanging out with him uh the caseitself 80 to 90% of the time was a blast like the work itself was fun um and oneI’m I’m supposed to be his billionaire so all of a sudden the FBI is yeah your Lieutenant is like great thanks alot I spent so much City money at I’m gonna need a Ferrari and a Benzwell see I did I got the driver Porsche I got the driver bins a lot um now they were not City Vehicles those came fromthe FBI but right seizures and all that yeahexactly but it so that part of it I mean I could not complain I had first legitimately the first time ever in mylife I had surf and turf was in that case oh it’s so good dude surf and turf ismy legitimate dude I the first time I ever had true surf and turf was at the capol grill in Boston and um you knowthe lobster tail on top of a a flame andun and I take a little bite of each at the same time with the butter oh my Istill think about it I mean it’s amazing it’s incredible yeah exactly like I wasjust dumb it I couldn’t help but many times think if they knew what a schmuckthey’re dealing with right now it would be hilarious I never had anything likethis I mean I bought a $1,000 bottle of wine I was actually over ,000 at the one place ow so far out of my element it wasUnreal yeah so cool man so where do you go fromthere so you’re you’re driving flashy cars you you got the girl so marks and I get closer andcloser and this is what the an did the TV show on um this case and inparticular one night so I’m literally like I mean I’m having Sunday dinnerswith Marcus and his daughters u i mean we get that closeand he’s the one who has to vouch for me like Marcus when I set up well our original plan was U I was opening up twoclubs and Marcus was basically gonna be my go-to he was going to sponsor me tothe Greeks and that I would pay him and he would pay the Greeks um and everything would be you know blessed andready to go right um original plan was he had connections to another countryand political connections and we were going to bring in 50 kilos of cocaine every other week via my plane from hiscountry that he had the source to bring it in to get it and that we’d bring it to Charlotte and store it in this oneclub and the other club would be the nice club that everybody would see so the Greeks weren’t just involved in thelocal politics they were also moving dope and everything no so this is wherethings took eternally the Greeks did not Greeks would not touch the dope at all and would get pissed um okay I got I gotsat down a couple times I got s sat down in this cases once by uh Marcos and onceby the Greeks and the Greeks were basically you will not be involved in the dop game there’s the other guy thatI told you about um that I originally wanted the stripper supplier well I alsoended up getting really close to him in this case as well he was he hung out with the Italians um that’s how crazythis whole thing was and they they warned me a couple times that if he wasdoing his deals and he was allowed to deal in their club which was what was so dumbfounding but they didn’t have anyattachment to him if they’re sponsoring him or sponsoring me they have an attachment to me so I’m kind of belongto them uh but they yelled at me and said you know I will not be involved in the dope game or they will take care ofit um and it was not I did not feel Pleasant about how they would take care ofyeah so I had I I walked a very thin line on that one Marcos was not goodabout it he uh and they would get mad at him consistently for it but he also soMarcos was in his 40s that’s say 50s at that time um and you would see him with girls intheir young 20s a lot and you would also see them every now and then come up see him and then Dart off to the bathroomand then come back a couple minutes later uh so I knew he was yeah he was giving him candy yeah um so I think he wasalways on a thin line with them in terms of that but they also had a great dealof loyalty to him um I had heard I I never found out the real reason they were so loyal to him I heard acouple stories that I could never vouch where U he kept quiet for them andbasically almost got killed for them so I think that had something to do with it butso that’s one of the stressful thing about that case is I was constantly going down two roads I was withMarcos um pretty much all the time and then sometimes it’ be Marcos um Mikeyand I Mikey being the supplier for the stripper and so you’re different so Iunderstand it the right way and everybody’s following they you get into the into the Greeks through the peringand the the sketchy stuff they’re doing there that’s your angle with them but also there’s like it likebranches off into like they won’t touch drugs so now you’re dealing with the Italian mafia at the same time yeah yeahor this guy Mikey who’s attached to them uh wow this must have been a lot a lotto process when you’re doing it it was at first but then due to other peoplegot so my interest at that time like my sister was a task force also with the DEA in this case not my real sister theother undercover and I had been doing work PRI prior to this with the DEA and so this was going to be a DEA case whenwe got the 50 kilos we’re going to come from another country we had a DEA plane lined up we were ready to do his DEAand about two days later uh Marcus calls me says hey come meet me for lunch um helived in a high-rise condo says come meet me for lunch uh let’s talk to business and get this settled and getthings moving which obviously was great to hear so I go meet him and that wasthe worst lunch uh he goes I mean in some ways it was great but for me a lotof ways it was bad he uh he goes all right we’re going to move on to next steps we’re gonna have to pay somepoliticians off we have to get this sponsorship with the Greeks soon um and then we can start doing this but wecan’t do those things uh we can’t move any of the dope until we have this other stuff taken care of with uh politiciansand the Greeks um I get done with him meeting talking about with the DEA whatwhat was said in the meeting and they’re like well we’re out and said you got to go to the FBI they have now they havejurisdiction on this because of the politicians and political corruption um so they make a call andthen I end up having to go over to the FBI office uh meet with the FBI andthey’re like we’ve been trying so long to get in in Charlotte and have failed every single time and this is our thisis our ticket um which I mean at the time I was like oh sweet this is going to be awesomeum so we so then it becomes you know FBI case and I’m told at that time you knowjust stay the course we’re going to start looking for another Deep Cover to bring in um that will be your money manthen but we’ll have to go through all the Hoops get everything written up we have to make it a group onek like allyou know how it is all the paperwork all that crap and it takes for I I couldn’teven I think it took like six months to get to to have it established as a group onecase uh and then another six months to find an agent or yeah an agent to be mymoney man another Deep Cover uh so and so in that year time was a state ofcourse and just continue to build the relationship and I mean they still funded it uh they used a different pot of money and all that so becausesomebody’s got to pay for these clubs that you’re oh yeah you’re opening and Imean and this whole time you’re treading water with it just kind of gathering more evidence and making connections andyeah and I mean like I’m with them 247 so I’m constantly spending money out with them um and everything we do so butI mean they you know they took care of the bill when well they took care most of it my department had paid for it fora while um state of North Carolina the SBI was also involved in the case because of some of the on the drug sideof things with Mikey and that side um so kind of it did get split up some acrossthe board so so how did how did each prong of this case endso disappointingly in some to me some other people weuh Mikey goes to Brazil and that closes that one off and honestly I believeMikey got got himself killed in Brazil he was trying to find a new connect inBrazil and I I think he screwed up um because he he kept contact with me whileI was in Brazil and then all of a sudden he just stopped and nobody ever heard from him again so not a good signyeah uh and then with Marcosso I have a horrible night with Marcos one night I mean everything worked out but we go outwe meet about 6 p.m. he tells me come pick him up at his condo we’re going to his one Greek Club um well Greek barclub we go there place I’ve been to a million times before um but there wereso many red flags this night like when I pick Marcos up he’s extremely quiet which is not his style at all he isalways outgoing and talkative he was very non-private about his phone crazyas that is and then yet this night he was making sure I couldn’t see anything on his phone and he was on it a lot alot of text messages it was almost instantaneous that you know you’re starting to get that bad feeling yeah umso we go to this first Club place I’ve been to 100 times we walk in know the hostess well and we always just go sitwherever we want no big deal um we get there and she goes up I have your seatsready and at that point my anxiety is going up because that’s never happenedbefore is there’s got to be a reason that she would say I have your seats ready um now I’m I’m not particularlyhappy so it’s on the far side of the bar which I know the bar well right behind me is a curtain that has a little officethat’s the surveillance office it has all the cameras in this little office and all this and you can hear everythingthat’s going on right here um we sit down we each get a glass of winehe which he’s also a big- Time drinker so normally he’s down himself himself left and right he’s barely touchinganything he gets up several times with his phone and walks away and is talking on the phone getting text mess still notallowed to say anything he’s not saying anything to me like maybe three words you know and it’s all questions um so Iobviously know something’s up but I don’t know what um he takes a phone call comes back over to me and like come onwe’re going up town to the other clubs all right so I drive them up we go toWhat’s called the epicenter and the clubs start on the second floor of the epicenter it’s got like three levels and second level starts the clubs so we walkup the steps get to the second level he says hold on a second he walks away and gets on the phone again um comes backover to me says come on we’re going back to my place and we’ll have a bottle of wine there and talk and at this pointI’m like could could you ask him like what’s up with you like you’re acting weird orit wasn’t weird enough that you could do that it was kind of like borderline I probably should have I hadn’t yet thoughI was just keep my mouth shook just kind of going with it um a smarter man would have probably said something along Igotta go I’m flying out or something like that got out it’s like this again I can’t say this was smart um but so I goto him to his condo and I’ve been to his condo couldn’t even tell you how many times prior to this thousands um he isnear the top and you walk into the condo open the door there’s a kitchen to yourright you walk past the kitchen there’s a bathroom bedroom’s on the left with another bathroom attached to it livingroom straight ahead and then balcony pass that um he had always always hadhis lights on and every door open that’s just kind of the way he he was so we getthere we get up to his condo he opens the door and it’s pitch black and that was was I was just like this is it ohman kind of was thinking I I screwed up um and he goes go make yourselfcomfortable on the couch I’ll get us the wine um I literally walked directly tothe balcony and looked down because I was confident I was going to get tossed and I wanted to see where I was going ohmy gosh so oh and keep in mind to every door was shut which first time I’d everseen the door shut in his condo um so go look over the balcony there isa pool about halfway down I thought well maybe I’ll just aim for the pool may it would have still killed me but at leastit would have been in water right uh so then I have a seat on the couch he does gets bottle of wine turnson a lamp in the living room um and sits down and he starts drilling me withquestions and it’s not a bunch of questions probably like 20 questions just asked different way same way we would interrogate someone right um likewhere’d you grow up again you know what was the name of that orphanage who are your friends um what was what sports didyou play you know what was the what was the orphanage like like he went into that lot then he went into bank accountswell how many bank accounts you have what businesses what did you invest in again when did you do that um oh boy allthose kind of things yeah exactly and then several times his phone would go off and he would get like with textmessages he would look at it get up and go in the bath or in the bedroom and he did the criminal door open and closingwhich we’ve all seen where you know you go knock on the motel room door or whatever and they either barely open itand cracked their head out or they slide out the door so that you can’t see in at all like somebody’s feeding him questions make sure you ask him thisexactly so that was I knew there were people in there um and this literallywent I mean I think we got back to his place and started this around 910 p.m.um eventually I did say I was like man I hang out with your daughters you knowwe’re all friends like you and I have been together now for a year or whateverInseparable and we’ve had almost every Sunday dinner together what is going on did I do something did I piss you offare you mad at me you know what’s up um and he was basically showed up said noeverything’s fine like with no emotion nothing that helped me at allum at this point do you have anybody tailing you guys no so I had they had told me lateron that close cover would be them being in their office or checking in by text message theybasically and they’re they’re not wrong I mean I would have liked them to AV word it differently but it was basicallywe’re uh we’re body recovery oh cool just being honestthere’s nothing we can we’re not going to be able to save yeah they could they probably sustain that for as long asyou’re going undercover exactly and and it’s more risky to try to tail me and everythingelse with going to different places and a lot of these places are very you would get noticed in a heartbeat kind of thingright um so I mean it is what it is So eventually I can see light comingin through the window and I’m like oh like and he out just all of a suddenall right you can go and I’ll call you later and that’s it nothing else just you can go I’ll callyou later so weird condo were at yeah his condo complex has its own garage Igo down to a garage I still remember sitting in the car for a second with the key in the inition and just wondering ifI turn this is it going to blow up is it going to be like one of the movie scenes right that how this is going to play outuh and they had gone through my car I know that because my center console was up paper like they didn’t hide it uhum so I I started the car it did not blow up obviously um thank goodness andstarted to drive to the apartment and um I get a call then fromMarcos and he’s like nice job everything checks out um I’ll see you in a couple hours and we met at the strip club wealways meet at in the morning and go from there and when I met him he wasback to his normal self and says the Greeks love we’re good to go U and so a couple daysof that I met one of the heads of the of the Greeks um you talk about an intimidating guythat guy was intimidating like just your oldschool just I don’t even know how to explain it but you like there was no question he was the boss like he justMAF a second yeah exactly to the tea um just veryI don’t even know how to describe I’m trying to think of the right word um but he owned the room like when hewould walk in he owned anywhere he was it was impressive give the guy credityeah damn man let me ask you when when all this is going on this first DeepCover thing you’re doing how do they make um how do you make time for familyis it like kind of like I got to catch a flight somewhere or I’m going to be out of town and then you just go like crashwith your family like spend time with them and then recuperate and then go back is that how you do it um well thatwould have been nice to do it that way there were a couple times that um I’d hang out with my family outside of thearea but other than that um the first case I’d get home some like and itdidn’t do any good uh between 4: to six o’clock in the morning and then back outum but that was it but every time you go home it’s just so risky like I thesecond case I just did not do it um so this first case you like literally didnot see your family that almost at all no yeah usually if I saw them they weresleeping but at least got to know they were alive um but I did get tocommunicate with them more in the first case talk on the phone more it wasn’t as bad as the second case second case wasjust horrendously aw by lack of choice um man that’s got to be so hard thetough part is like anytime you go home or even go to meet him like if you’re getting tailed and you miss it like it’sDawn and you just gave them who your family is right so it just doesn’t it’s it’sweird and like I talked about this with my wife uh another hard part you know you talk about living the double lifewell that’s it’s not easy to do and it’s not it’s not as easy as just going back and forth between two different peoplelike you almost just want to stay as this Alter Ego until it’s done um toavoid screwing up towards the end was she getting like is this going to be over soon like were you able to give herany timeline no so when we thought we were GNA have boy this happened to me in bothof them uh I’ve learned you don’t ever think it’s gonna end um I literally would getto the mindset let’s just get through today you can’t think you’re going to see your family tomorrow you can’t think you’re going to see a family next monthyou’ve just got to think about getting through this situation to the next situation uh that’s just way like thatwas best for my brain anyway that I can’t look at oh if I just make it onemore month I’m gonna get to see my family I I just tuned out and basically was like well I’m never gonna get to see him again I just to have that mindset doyou think like when you look back at this 20 30 years from now do you thinkit was worth it giving up that time with your child and your wife to work thecasee so I I tell everybody this it’s for my personal life it’s the mostselfish thing I’ve ever done to do that to my family is horrendous like if you if you boil it down you you can’t andespecially the second case more so even though it was only a year more so than the first case because there wasbasically no contact and then the things I had to do in that case in terms of I had to be arrested in that case um whichmade national news um and then my mom had cancer during that case and shelived where we lived in the same town and my wife had to handle everything plus my kid um wow like justunbelievable amounts so it there’s no question the selfish now my wife is the reason I stayed in I almost bailed onthe second case um with about four months togo my I didn’t know about my mom yet but my kid who’s been no joke since he wasborn had basically been the perfect kid uh like when when I blew out my knee he was only you know acouple months old back when I blew it out see he was born in February I blew it out in Aprilum and I couldn’t go up and downstairs and so that night Rd goes um Kadenthat’s our son’s name goes Kaden you’re gonna have to start sleeping the whole night obviously he’s only two months old he can’t understand anything say but Ineed you to start sleeping the whole night because can’t and then he started sleeping the whole night literally thatnight never had again yeah exactly right and then um in school he was quiet but umhe’s always been extremely smart it’s good that way but always in a good moodeverything like that everything was always really good with him uh I get a call from R in the second case and I’mon my way to a meeting with with some targets and Ishe would only call if she felt it was something that needed to be discussed umand because it was my UC phone and so she calls me up and saysyou know one I’m sorry to call um she goes I debated whether I wasgoing to tell you this or not but I didn’t want you to be mad at me later on for not telling you and she goes Kaden’sall of a sudden having a very difficult time in school and he’s extremely depressed he teachers finally ask as himwhat’s going on what’s wrong and he said I miss my daddy oh man I pulled off tothe side of the road bald my eyes out and I told R I said all right don’t worry about it I’ll be home tomorrowthis case is over um and she goes hold up she’s always good about this kind ofthing and she goes I want you to think about the outcome if things go wrong andyou come home because the reason I got involved with sin case is because they had heard U and I now at this point hadsolid information that a group was planning to do a bombing at the DNC in Charlotte and she goes if a bunch ofofficers get killed in a bombing because you bailed out of this case are you gonna be able to live withyourself oh what a pickle yeah so I sat on on road for a minute bald for a whileum called her back and said I’m staying in the case um I said and I think I said somethinglike I’ll try to at least stop home for a minute within the next week can see Kaden um which I failed todo but and then I sat there for a little while and then having to recomposemyself and go back to being this other person like that was the tricky way that was tricky um brother that is tough Iwas hating life at that point I like I that case was challenging in every waylike you I talked about how I enjoyed the people a lot of the people hung out with in the first case um criminals ornot whatever was fun yeah yeah there were maybe two people in this case thatdidn’t totally upset me the uh person that was my Billy was my best friendBilly was very charismatic to other people but he was a paranoid schizophrenic on cocaine hey Matt yeahgoad I want to hear about it sounds amazing but can we wrap up the first one you talked about first with Mar yeah Iknow CU so yeah get all over so I deal with Marcus for a long time then FBI findsthe money man that they want to bring into the picture um that takes a lot longer than we expected just lack oftrust they didn’t trust you know bringing a new person in this was not how the Greeks play business um luckilyeventually said well they really like me um I proved myself to them if I vouch for this guy fine whatever so we get themoney guy in still a lot of phone calls for a while but eventually I’m totally out of the picture they basically saidyou know well you know how he is he’s a Playboy who wants to go party everywhere else and they used actually the stripperand said he’s got this crazy girl here who won’t leave him alone he’s just tired of it um so you’re gonna have todeal with me and eventually that worked I was able to get out of it yeah I gotout of that case August 2011 where I was pretty much I was allowed to go back tothe apartment they put me with the DEA um and then they also got that was inthat same month that got the warning about the bombing uh for the DNC whichwas going to be September 2012 and the Intel unit met with me andasked me if I’d be willing to to attempt to embed um or to infiltrate a couple ofthese groups to at least find out if there’s any truth to the bombing sothat’s kind how we switch from one to the did they Greeks end up uh did they end up getting the H the the braceletsor so the mayor of Charlotte ended up going to jail for federalbribes um because we paid them off there were a couple other people arrested thatI don’t think I’m allowed to talk about um there were numerous people that should have been arrested that weren’tbut that’s I guess when I finish my part of the case that’s not my decision anymore you must have been so relievedat least until the next third sandwich came your way um I got to ask you Matt um we’vegone over hour and it it’s been fantastic man I’ve love listening to itbut are are you willing to come back and do a a part two I love hanging out with youabsolutely are you have time for that because I know you’re busy and you’re doing all kinds of stuff I don’t want to leave the the uh listeners hanging andnot have you ever come back yeah I will definitely come back man I’d love to have you come back and and just lay outthe second case because uh this it’s just so damn interesting man it’s it’s crazy and you’re I think the the mostcaptiv part about it is like you’re like a really good guy like you’re like you’re clearly like a a good dude wholike just to sacrifice a bunch of himself to do this stuff and it that fascinates me because it’s like it I’mlike I’m like a classic copper I do Patrol I I do you know I’ve been doing law enforcement 17 years now at thispoint and I’m I’m kind of like I’m no ball of fire and whatever so when I hear about guys that do stuff like this I’mlike oh my gosh this is incredible dude you’re like this is like blood moneyyou’re getting here you’re like you know trading parts of yourself uh to get these people and thank goodness peoplelike you do that you know and thank goodness for your wife supporting youlike that you know it’s it’s it’s truly incredible because a lot I mean a lot of guys in your position go through wives and havebroken families and and don’t and kind of make it out worse for the wear you know they the trade-off wasn’t worth itso I I had a buddy who had started he did a six month actually with a with aOMG with a motorcycle gang um undercover with them and something went wrong and he had end up bailing on it but in justsix months he lost his marriage because of it he was part of it like and this was the guy that I you know I idolizedwhen I got to the apartment like that’s who I want to be that’s you know I want to do Deep Cover that’s the guy I wantto be um and he is like he and I are still super close he’s a great great guybut he was the one who warned me that you know very easily this will cost you everything um I broke I broke onerule in both cases and I would do it again tomorrow and um you know you’renot supposed to talk about the cases with your family you’re supposed to pretty much have them in the dark that’s you obviously opset right you can’t talkabout these things I I basically said if I can’t trust my wife then I shouldn’t number one I shouldn’t be married to herum and none of this is worth it and so I she knew way more than she was supposedto know I told her that I was in the strip clubs that’s pretty much where I lived um youalmost got to do that for your conscience you know what I mean like I would have to like I’d have to especially being a Christian guy I’dhave to be like listen this is part of my vocation this is what I’m doing I’m it would feel like bad you’d feel badkeeping it from her exactly 100% And if something goes wrong you know and that’show she find me that just be like yeah I would I can’t do it so I’ve got to trust her enough that she knows she can’t andand it did it made that much tougher on her though but she did it she didn’t tell anybody she was really before Iwent to Vice and narcotics she did like cmpd wi was one of the founders of cmpd wiv which was for officers wives to beable to talk you know I lost two very good friends who were in my district were shot and killed um while I wasthere and that’s kind of when cmpd wise can together because you know we wereall obviously devastated and so they brought that together um for the wivesto be able to talk so they had a support group also um so she went from all thatto all of a sudden having cut ties with everybody and not talking to anybody because people want to ask well whereyou know where’s Matt where because I just I literally one day there and next day disappeared just goneyeah that’s crazy man and are you guys were you living in relatively a nearbyarea when you were doing all this yeah not not far um that must have drove younuts too cuz it’s like even just running into your running into your neighbor in downtown Charlotteor something you know what I mean you do it for long enough you’re gonna see people and kind of put your head downthat became that became the other struggling part even after the cases was there was no going out um like we wentout with friends one time not even in Charlotte but um in the neighboring umcity or town and we’re out to eat and we literally just sit down at see somebodywalk in that if that person saw me it would be big time trouble so I basically like I get up Idon’t even have time to explain so I get up like I’m going to the bathroom get out get into the car and then call mywife and say hey I can’t come back in you guys have a good time I’m gonna have to wait in the car brother that is that is I’d be sopissed off if I you get to one time to go out and be normal and like you know have somecocktails with friends and it’s like no I’ll be in the car have fun y all enjoyoh man you’re a saint man that’s that’s unbelievable Matt um like I said we’reover an hour I want to respect your time uh because I know you can talk for another hour about the the next thingand I have questions I didn’t even ask you yet but um if you’re willing man I would absolutely I’d be honored to haveyou back on man absolutely yeah definitely we’ll schedule it right away all right brotherthank you so much man it it was it was awesome um I’m gonna I’m gonna do the outro and thank the patreon sponsors canyou hang on for just a second absolutely awesome the great Matt pitchers ladiesand gentlemen wow Matt pitcher um unbelievable I me so freakinginteresting uh really really cool I can see why he’s been on TV and why he’s um you know finally coming out of his deephibernation of social media and starting to blow up uh just just so cool I can’twait to get the part two out of him um thank you again for that mat so awesome um this is a time in the show when 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