First Shooting Call, Suicidal Man Saws His Own Hand, Child Drowning

this is things police see firstand accounts with your host Steve gold welcome to the podcast interviews AC and retired police officers about their most intense bizarre and sometimes humorous moments on the job it is I old freckles coming at you old Ginger face uh thank you for being here thank you for joining us thank you for all the listening and reviewing I truly appreciate that I appreciate you I’m sorry I’m a little I’m a little extra pink today I uh had a big day big Saturday um I’m a tractor man I think you guys if you listen to the show before you know I’m a tractor owner and I am in fact a tractor man I don’t know if you are or if you own a tractor but I highly highly suggest it I own and I I will clarify that I own a real ass tractor too it’s not like one of these BS like lawn tractors with like a little tiny attachment it’s a real like cabota TR caor it’s got like a 4ft loader bucket on it I have no no business uh probably operating it but I do operate it all around my property and uh it’s it’s like the best thing if you have snow if it snows where you are and you have any reason to have a totally awesome tractor they’re great for snow clearing land uh I’ve almost flipped it over twice knocked a tire off it in the woods once but um they they are fantastic and it sounds like a ridiculous extravagant thing to have for a homeowner but it was one of those times in our life when we were we had sold our house and we were getting a new house and you know you have that little extra money so we like you know put money for the kids college and a little extra that money that we had left over and I had like you know some money and we were going to like do we put a deck on do we uh take down some of these trees that could crush our house in a storm and then I was just in bed one night on Facebook and I was like showing my wife I’m like this tractor is pretty gnarly look at this thing this thing’s awesome used tractors it’s like an 07 diesel cabota tractor and uh she was like oh we could probably probably get some stuff done with that thing and that right there that that one statement she made I knew there was hope I’m like oh she’s not she she’s not totally shutting a tractor down this is crazy CU I was like that’s dumb it’s a dumb idea she’s like no that could be really useful and uh from that point on I was just uh it didn’t actually didn’t take much my wife’s really good like that she likes like tractors and she likes like kind a diesel pickup she loves it um I’ll do things like I’ll be like did you see the news I think uh I think the war might be starting soon and we only have uh three assault rifles and she’ll be like well get another one what are we doing so uh it’s not all that difficult but guys highly recommend the tractor uh that’s what I was tractoring and then I tried to squeeze in a workout um and now my face is pretty pink and I’m kind of sweating underneath the sweatshirt unexpectedly so uh all that to say we have a fantastic show today we have um kind of a first time uh uh guest here because he’s done um about 13 years where he is let me give you the official um give the official intro and uh kind of explain it so he did a total of 13 years in for Indianapolis PD as a reservist so big city reserved which I think is really interesting um he did eight years left and then missed it and came back and did five more um he’s done a bunch of uh really interesting things I even saw a clip of him uh he he can tell me I think it I think it was an old Oprah Show where he sang uh with a bunch of other policemen but um he can tell you all about that without further do let me bring on the great Jamon Jack Jamon hey Steve how are you brother great to have you like like we were saying before when uh when you sent me the email and then um you’re writing to me and then you sent me the clip of the show which was great I saw the black guy in there and I’m like oh this is cool I’m going to have like a Caribbean uh uh Caribbean dude on the show cuz your name right right it’s pretty unique that’s for sure so it’s pronounced Jamon right I’ve been called jamone Jamon all kinds of different things so but um all of my customers today that I do a lot of Consulting work with you know all I got to do is say hey it’s Jamon I don’t even have to say my last they know immediately who it is so it it’s a little helpful in that realm hell yeah it’s a it’s a good name it’s a strong name Jamon Jack that sounds SS like a like a copper you would not like the last name name tag says Jack like he’ll Jack you up like that’s good that’s good I just need I need one of those intros like you got before I get to say my name right so right yeah they um there was a trooper in this area that was his last name was sternfield and that was perfect because he was a wicked wicked ticket writer you know so it’s kind of perfect but um brother Indianapolis eight-year Reserve that’s a that’s big big city copin what what is that like when you got into being reserved in Indianapolis what what were they having you do or what did you what you have to what were the barriers to entry as a reserve the the the entry was as hard as it was to get on fulltime we um I mean I’ve heard a lot of different numbers in my class when I came on in 1992 and that was 2,900 for 25 positions and um damn yeah they it was in it was I mean it’s I wish it was like that today right I wish everybody was you know running to to do this job yeah that’d be a blessing to have that many number now you can’t fill positions right it’s it’s challenging and uh but I think the pendulum’s going to swing back and I think um we’re going to get our strength back again and we’re going to um we’re going to do what we need to do out there on the streets again so um but it was interesting Steve I I that the the crazy thing about it was so you have to go through the interview process you have to go through all the Physical Agility all the written all the background all of those things so it was like I mean it got pretty scary so it was getting really close to that class starting I’ve not heard anything and the phone rang one day and they said hi this is Indianapolis Police Department we would wanted to let you know that you were number 26 out of number 25 I’m like oh my goodness they said well somebody walked stepped out right before and we inviting you to come be a part of it so nice if that and you know what that decision that that person made um I’m so grateful for because it made such a huge impact in my life and the things that I’ve seen and have been able to do it’s just um I mean that’s just the start Steve right it goes right into the academy and right into all of that that you have to do so in the reserves they do it three days a week or yeah two days a week and then on Saturdays and you have all the range all the evok you have everything that an a standard policeman has to do um and uh all the fto everything so it’s Indianapolis takes that extremely seriously and um I don’t know man I was just so honored to do that job and hell yeah it’s the interesting that people ask like why would somebody do that for free and oh was it not paid no no 100% free right so when I when it’s a reserve it’s unpaid you still get you can get a take-home police car you get all the equipment you run a Beat Just like like an like like a fire call firefighter almost you’re just doing it to help yep yep so um just we typically put in about 32 um hours a month and um most of it’s more than that right but I mean we’re taking the 911 calls with everybody else so um and they asked you know why would you do that for free right and getting on ipd it was Indianapolis Police Department back then it’s now IMD so it’s Indianapolis metro they merged with the sheriff’s department to create the now what is known as impd um but back in those days it was so hard to get on the department and I had such a burning desire to be a policeman I said I’m just going to be a reserve because I have this motto that even today Steve continues to press me and gets me out of bed sometimes earlier than I want to but um it’s that whole analogy of evil prevails when good people do nothing I love that and I and I felt so driven by that that even though I mean I even say that to officers today right we have all the excuses right now to not be doing what we should be doing because of everything that police are dealing with but we have to be able to look at ourselves at the end of the day and say Evil’s still going to Prevail whether I make I Fall to this or I go out and do my job and I think there’s it’s so commendable to watch all of these policemen out there knowing what they’re under they’re still putting that badge on and that gun on and they’re going out and doing what needs to be done so I think it’s pretty fantastic but that is my personal drive that is what pushes me because I know that if I don’t go out there and do something for my community um I need to be able to look myself in the mirror and say you know it may not be full-time like an officer is but I’ve dealt with so many horrible things I’m going to be honest with you horrible things on the police department that I’ve seen um that even though I carry these burdens every day I still would not change a thing because I believe the lives that these police officers have changed they will never know the impact of that that that’s great man that and that’s got to be motivating for a full-time Force too where you have you have these guys coming in doing it out of the goodness of their heart for nothing and if you’re a full-timer and you’re like you’re having a day when you’re just kind of like pissed off or pissy or you don’t feel like doing nothing or you don’t want to go to any calls and you’re working alongside these guys that come in just do it to do it that would really light a fire fire under my ass I’d be like gez this guy’s here he’s not even getting paid but besides that Jamon what do they do for injuries if you get injured in the line of duty as a non- paid police officer do do you get do you get paid like do they take care of you well we don’t get paid so they take care of allthough we’re medical right if we get injured and I’ve been injured numerous times um yeah I was riding I was on the bike Patrol in downtown Indianapolis and there was uh it was a stolen car Pursuit and they wanted the bike uniters to get right in there as close as they can so when the guys jump from the Cars we can chase them down on the bikes and I remember going Southbound on Pennsylvania cutting through a construction site and the last thing I remember is a policeman in the intersection going like this no and I woke up in an ambulance oh hit fresh cement Flew Over the handlebars landed right on my face and my helmet cracked my helmet all up and it was it was pretty scary but you know they obviously they’re they’re going to take care of their people when it comes to to that right so um but then you have to worry about your full-time job right if you’re out doing this and you get shot or whatever and then you’re like how am I gonna there’s a lot of challenges that that come with this but that’s tough I mean they must have an association like a patrolman’s or a benevolent Association that can kick some shekels your way if you get injured and you’re a reservist I don’t know I don’t I’ll be honest with you I don’t think that exists but I know um I mean I work with some reserves that are presidents of companies and CEOs of companies that just love being a policeman so much that you know we’ll donate to these other fellow reserves if we need to right we’re not we’re not going to let somebody suffer for that take care of your own that’s great yeah man that’s interesting so if you is the see Massachusetts has had reserves for a long time and they are now but here’s the thing Massachusetts is getting been getting away with um under trining people forever because Mass has never been post so they have the Mass police training Council kind of regulates everything along with the you know it’s part of the state and um we had police reform recently and it was like we had reserves working that just did a took a brown book test in like the early 90s like he just took a law test and like became coppers but then they learned on the job so now they’ve been on the job 30 years and it’s kind of like well now it’s too late that it’s the bell’s been rung they’re they’re cops now they they’ve actually they did it the hard way um but you know and I understand it they they got rid of all those people they’re like well we’ll give you the opportunity to go to an academy but if you don’t want to you’re not a cop anymore so they kind of masses kind sounds like the big cities have always done it the way your place did it they actually give you the proper training um so in Mass say this offered this Bridge Academy where if you’re a reserve like I became a reserve when I was in college um it was 148 hour academy one Saturday a week for six months and there was no firearms no evok and no applied Patrol procedures so like it was it was expected that you’d get the certificate and then you get the same certification a full-time guy had but it was up to the department you went to to teach you Motor Vehicles stops to teach you guns you know but the reality was most of us were going back to like little towns that like didn’t have Specialists instructors and all these things so it was just ride with the senior guys you were the you know you were the reserve boot uh so to speak so it’s it’s glad I’m glad to hear you guys had like legit training and did it obviously did it the right way that’s because I mean how could you not in a big city you’d be screwed you’d be in like so much danger right away I agree but you know I I always commend these County officers and some of these State guys that man I mean on I in Indianapolis if I call for help there’s like there’s people there within less than a minute and helicopters and people repelling off of buildings I mean you know what I mean they’re just everywhere all the assets yeah it’s just fantastic to know that when you call for help there for you so it’s good absolutely Jamon can you take us back to uh Young trollman Jack uh on the beat you know you got out of the academy you got broken in um or maybe during your Breakin what was the first call you went to that really got your ajin lingo and your first hot call well this it was actually so I was in fto and um my fto was extremely laid-back he was just a fantastic guy really really patient and it was my first day driving and uh we’d probably was probably we were working middle sh started roll call at 130 and about probably 2 to 2:15 all of a sudden this you know the tone comes over right the the long tone and um person shot I can’t remember the exact address it was um and he said this is us what are you waiting for and I’m like um okay and this was before we had you know all the GPS all the everything right and they’re giving giv out the coordinates and he’s like all right just go straight go left go right and it took us maybe 45 seconds and we got there and we pulled up and boom he’s out of the car and I’m jumping out of the car and there’s a guy laying in the middle of the someone’s front yard and he’s he’s got two or three bullet holes in his leg and I’m just almost like in panic mode I’m like what is happening surreal right it was so surreal and um I mean the medic showed up they cleared the scene everything’s fine Medics show up they throw on the mask pants I don’t know if they use those anymore but the mask pants where they put them on and they tighten they blow up and they tighten them their legs up so tight where that they stops the bleeding and um boom he’s up and he’s gone and um they’re setting up the crime scene and I’m still my head spinning like what am I supposed to do right um and it was I mean they don’t teach you that in the academy right they teach you a lot of things and and every fto will tell you right they’re like all right glad you went to the academy now I’m going to teach you how to be a cop right and that’s exactly what happened he was extremely kind he said Jamon I know a whole bunch of things just happen instantaneously let’s go back let’s debrief on this and show you you know you know what we need to do and we get there we clear the scene make sure the suspect um is not on scene anymore get medics in you know get the crime scene established um get the get the injured out and um and that’s kind of what that process is and he he never looked he never panicked he was as calm as can be as everything happened and I learned so much from that in that day and I hear this often is a leader is one who hides his Panic you know when the police freak out and start running everybody needs to run right yeah the police the policeman knows no matter what’s going on in their brain and how jacked up everything is around them they have got to be laser focused and stay calm and collected and I learned so much from that that day and I took it into my career but wow that was it man that I remember that I mean I can still see the guy laying in the grass and there was another guy sitting up on the porch just in a rocking chair like nothing was going on it was it was bizarre but yeah totally yeah that’s it’s great you had a uh a trainer like that you know I’ve heard on this show before that you know it I get it some trainers treat you like the boot and it’s you know militaristic the way they treat treat their boots but it can um I’ve heard it be pretty damaging to a new person who like you got to you got to recognize like what you said like this isn’t something they got in Academy like a live shooting or a murder scene or a suicide or someone EX in extreme distress um you got to kind of know the line between like being hard on the guy and being stiff with him to like understanding what what the train is going through because they’re not what if you’re if you’re come down on them hard it it could really create a scar and they might not even want to do the job anymore you know so it’s nice to hear that I it’s pretty great Steve that in the reserves we’re able to be fto as well when we bring new reserves on and oh nice yeah I mean I mean there’s reserves that do SWAT team stuff there’s Reserve hostage negotiators there’s um all kinds of opportunities to to to do that stuff so it’s it’s it’s pretty fantastic so um but but you’re right though the fto has to be real careful they have to there has to be a balance um and the fto is going to learn as as as the time progresses with with the rookie that there’s a time that he needs to get a boot put up his ass sometimes right and saying you know it’s you know um but when it’s appropriate so I mean you don’t want somebody I mean we’ve we’ve seen a lot of reserves come through and they’re they end up leaving in fto they just can’t handle it yeah I just I just remember when I was finally released out of fto and I had my own car and I was like nobody sitting next to me analyzing every freaking thing I was doing I was just like this the stress was like gone yeah I said now I can go investigate what I want to investigate Drive where I want to go and it was I mean after there’s a lot of fto hours but once those are over man it’s a it’s a relief absolutely yeah even if you are even if you just change agencies and you have to go through their little mini Breakin uh it’s stressful even if you’re already like a a fully functional cop having somebody listen to you talking the radio what kind of examine what you’re doing you know that is that’s that’s pressure and when you’re new and you don’t know anything it’s way worse man it’s a it’s h it’s quite the deal man we’re fortunate to have a a great training program and they equip us like they have like they do everybody else and it it gives us the confidence to do that but the fto has to be careful no no doubt and I was extremely lucky so absolutely Jamon can you describe a or tell us about a strange or bizarre thing you’ve dealt with on the job I’ve had a lot and um it’s it’s kind of interesting that um and I don’t know if this was this was a God thing or what this was but there were a lot of situations that I was put in and runs that I were I was on that were so that made me really have to look at who I am as an individual you know and and what people really go through and um it I’ll give you one here this is kind of I mean this isn’t one of those but this was a this was a pretty scary situation we were on the scene um some guy had broken into this um this area in downtown Indianapolis and um me and another officer were there he was a former Marine and um there was a report of a guy that was running around with a hatchet and he had blood all over him and we’re like this is going to be bad right and this was like 11:00 in the morning and what happened was so we we finally found the guy and we saw him before he saw us and we approached him really really carefully as soon as he turned and looked at us I re this reminds me every time I see the movie Seven I don’t know if you’ve ever seen seven withad I’m never watching it ever again yeah so you remember when um John Doe comes into the police station and he’s covered in blood in all over his arms and that reminded me so much because I remember my commands were get down get down down down down get down get down and he just the guy slowly just he dropped the Hatchet which we were so we thought we were GNA have to shoot this guy he was covered in blood and you know we cuffed him up and just like those guys did in that it was so bizarre right their our hands are covered in blood but we’re like well there’s not any blood on the blade of the hatchet what is going on so we did we followed the blood trail back to a room that was a maintenance closet and that maintenance closet and he had he had paint all over his all over his chin what he was doing is he was drinking paint and we found the the B not the the the the saw that you you pull down whatever that is anyway it’s like a circular saw of some sort but it’s stationary and there was blood all over the saw and we figured out what he was doing was he put his wrist under the saw and he was trying to kill himself by cutting off yeah so it was it was a close one um I mean there’s I mean it it was was probably one of the most bizarre situations that I’d ever been in in in the circumstances right of but you know what I’ve always I’ve been told by supervisors is Jamon to to die in the line of duty or to have a major major incident that is so critical to you your mental your your mental health or whatever that is you don’t have to not wear your vest right you don’t have to you know you know do a traffic stop incorrectly you don’t have to do any of that he says all you have to do is walk and or the word he used was to wander into somebody else’s Madness yeah you just walk in at the wrong time into somebody else’s craziness and there you are and now you’re the guy that’s got to deal or gal that’s got to deal with this and it is is you just never know when that’s going to be and and I tell officers a lot I mean I talk to cops all the time there a lot of them are really good friends of mine I’m like it’s not the fact that you have to worry about getting shot in the line of duty right that that’s one thing we do we we are concerned about that and we worry about it sure but the bigger thing Steve is that we are one run away from us mentally being changed forever yeah I mean I’ve heard stories from some of my buddies that they walk into a run and this guy is drenched in gasoline and he’s poured gas all over his children and he’s threatened to put to catch them all on fire and they’re sitting there trying to get the children out and then they finally drag the children out and the guy lights himself and he burns to death right in front of them wow and that was his that was his first run and he said I took 40 some more runs that day wow and it’s just but you never know right when that’s going to happen and I that’s why I think one of the biggest things that I am such an advocate advocate for is police resiliency and mental health because so many officers are dealing with this that they won’t ask for help so they self-medicate right whether it’s drugs or sex or alcohol whatever it is just anything to take them away from what they have to deal with every day and you know when I get to the point to where I’m I’m chatting with officers just about you know hey how are you you know you hear the typical hey I’m fine or oh I’m just tired or you know that Steve that’s you get that all the time right and you got to dig deeper right and then when you finally get them to open up man the the tears flow the anguish you the just everything you see that they’ve dealt with and they’re like man I thought I was alone dealing with I said man you’re not alone we’re all dealing with it and we all need to talk about it and um I think that’s I asked my buddy the other day I said do you think people are equipped to do this job he said I don’t think anybody is mentally equipped to do this job anymore and he said if they are we really need to question whether we hire him or not know I mean yeah yeah espcially the big cities you’re just drinking from a fire hose like you said just going on call after call after call um it that’s totally insane it’s like they’re at least it seems like now at least well maybe not now because of the Manpower problem but um it seems like the the last when I first started they were just getting into like doing critical incident like debriefings and at least they were doing that like get everybody in a room have some other cops here that are certified and just let them talk like people and you know how it is in those things like it’s like nobody talks for the first five minutes everybody’s just and then somebody starts talking and then everybody starts talking and people cry I mean people uh yell and people they kind of you know it’s it’s it’s healthy it’s it’s a good thing but that my dad was a cop for 32 years and he retired like 15 or 20 years ago now but that was not a thing at all it was pretty much just go home when your you know ship’s over go home that was it and there was a lot of drinking a lot of uh adultery a lot of frankly I mean just a lot of people dropping dead too like retire at 55 and then be dead at 58 type of deal which is not which is not a good deal for retirement you know I’m I’m writing a book on officer resiliency and just the mental health piece because I had a I had a a pretty devastating break and when it hit me it was extremely intense it was literally the fight for my life mentally wow and when I share that with officers I mean one of the big things when an officer has a PTSD breakdown they start noticing OCD Tendencies they’ll see I know a guy that counts telephone polls I know another guy that says that every time he blinked his conscious mind recognized it for me it it was the number 11 I would see it everywhere I would add numbers up subtract them and trust me I only went got through general math in school so it’s not because I’m smart with numbers it’s it’s just how your brain just says you know what I’m done dealing with this you better get some help from me so and I’m I’m good now right but I I know how that feels and when you start talking to officers and they start opening up about it um you never know the impact you’re going to have with with them you know and cuz they’re fighting this this private battle Yeah and we needed to really stop being private and we need to open up and talk about it so yeah absolutely well when when do you think the book will be uh finished what’s the deadline I got another another four chapters to finish um one of them what you talked about was the the the interesting part about um when they retire um I have a good friend um and I used to introduce him to my kids I’d be like hey this is this is Officer so and so right and I’m not going to say his name but this is Officer so and so and he stops me and he pulled me aside he said Jamon my name is Brian and I said why are you saying that he goes my name is Brian because someday I’m going to retire and I’m going to be Brian I’m not going to my identity is not going to be all around being a policeman and I think a lot of a lot of officers struggle with that right and when they retire they lose their identity of who they are because that’s what they’ve been forever and um it’s something you have to work on you have to talk about you have to be something more than just a policeman yeah it is that that mindset is it it creeps into every aspect of your life being a cop even if you try to have friends that aren’t cops and do other things you don’t think about the job all the time and all that you’re still we’re held to a higher standard so it’s like when you go out to the store or when you do anything you have that moniker always on you um so I think I think it does seep into people’s subconscious you know that you’re that’s that’s what you are something goes wrong like I Remember Speak going down the highway with my family once and this woman went off the road and slammed into a tree and then there was somebody else pulled over and I’m looking back I’m slowing down and my wife’s like yeah we got a yeah so I pulled over ran over to her and I’m like I’m trying to go on a family trip here and here I am with this this lady but um it’s kind of like it’s it’s just in us you know um so I think I think my dad did a great job with it he he did the 32 years and um got to retire lieutenant and he um he’s one of those guys that he’s always like he’s just like built for stressful situations he never like guys who worked with him would say like oh yeah your dad could be like like you know you know eating a sandwich at a at a death scene you know what I mean like he just never and I I got a lot of my mom in in me who’s like a yes yeah the sweetest lady who’s like you know a little bit more of a warrior so I kind of have that in me mixture of them but he’s like he’s 75 now he’s he’s thin he he stays active he wants to come over and help me build a deck at my house like he’s doing great you know what I mean he’s killing it but that’s that’s really kind of not always the case it’s kind of yeah not at all you know so yeah man we’re trying to I mean the company that I work for right we’re we are trying to find solutions for all the veterans that are returning and police officers that are retiring to find ways to take all of these skills that they have and put them to work in real-time crime Center stuff or whatever that is to just really uh man they just some of them are just looking for a place to land and what makes sense and and um you just hate to see a policeman you know do 20 years and you know they still got I mean I know guys that have done another 15 or 20 right on top of that so yeah um so we’re working on on doing some things like that so yeah I think I think men in in general were built I think it’s endowed in Us by our maker to be have a mission like men are mission driven right I think even I think it’s a I don’t like the whole American like retire and then you sit around and you you know you cocktail hour and Stakes every night like it it sounds great when you working 70 hours a week but really and my dad’s proof of this like he retired and then went to work for his friend in a metal bending shop building HVAC stuff because he loves doing that he loves getting the the plans and putting it and before he knew it he’s working 40 hours a week he’s like what am I doing but he’s he’s had a bunch of other jobs and he I think he he feels that he feels like he his friends he sees that go and just kind of put it in neutral and they do the trip across country in the camper with the wife and then that’s over and it’s kind of like like now now now what you have no Mission you have no you know no purpose so I think it’s whether it’s getting involved in a charity or just doing something having a mission in life I think is important for men you know I think I think it’s I mean for men for sure right but you know I mean I wish I could keep up with my wife man she’s she’s a school teacher and I mean she deals with that stuff all day long and then you know she’s at home working like a a wild woman grading papers doing dinner doing all I mean it’s just all that stuff right it’s just um I tell you what she’s the one that she’s the one that needs the retirement right because I mean I I look at my job and go wow that I actually get paid to do this and I actually love this she loves she loves to teach right but it’s like she teaches middle schoolers so that’s all I’m going to say about that oh my gosh nowadays too baby God bless her that’s tough Jamon can you tell us about your uh most intense or terrifying call you’ve been on yeah see this I was a little concerned when I started doing this because you know when you ask these questions right and you have to it causes us to to start thinking and then what happens is is then you start to spiral and then one thing reme reminds you you of another thing right and then you’re like I’m like look I’m not going down this again right so um but there is one that is still haunts me to this day [Music] um I was um so I was I don’t know if you guys were you remember there was like officers had they could live in an apartment for free if they were a courtesy officer or whatever that is right and they could you know so I was doing that when I was was younger and had a free apartment and we had a respon we had a big pool party at the apartment complex and I was um just there as you know just to greet people and you know make sure everybody was safe and do all those things and man I tell you what um I was it was just like a a typical day but I remember the pool being extremely cloudy and a de woman came up to me and her husband was deaf as well and he said she comes up to me and she’s sign languaging but also trying to speak saying I can’t find my daughter I can’t find my daughter I don’t know where she is um but Extreme Panic so immediately I my brain said I know where she is but I told the mom and dad I said go back to the apartment for me right and the their other daughter was there and she could was a hearing person and she was signing to the parents to go back to the apartment make sure she didn’t run back there to get to snack or get whatever and sure so I wanted them off this I wanted them out of there right so as soon as they turned around and walked away I grabbed the lifeguards and I said guys sweep the pool go down to the bottom and sweep the pool and they went down and they swept the pool and they came up up and they said no everything’s fine I said sweep it again and they’re kind of like what what’s wrong with this guy right I’m like sweep it again and they went down again and swept it again and man as that water came up and she came right out of those that cloudiness there she was she was a six years old blonde girl mouth was all black her eyes were black and I said bring her to me bring her to me and they brought her over to the side of the pool and um I started CPR on her immediately we were getting Medics coming and I just remember every time I breathed into her mouth she would throw up into my mouth and I remember we had I don’t want to be gross but I we had chicken I had fried chicken that day and I remember sweeping fried chicken out of my mouth every time wow and we were doing doing everything that we could to save this girl’s life and then while we’re doing that I can hear the mother coming back and in in her de speaking tone right because I could just hear that Terror in her when she saw that happening so anyway they the Medics got there they took over and she ended up passing away and I said to my I said to myself you know what I’m not going to just stop here I’m not just going to walk away from this I’m G to I’m going we’re we’re going we’re going to do all of this we’re not just going to let this family suffer on their own so I forced myself to go to the funeral and I remember coming up to the casket it was a really small casket white she was in a white dress and she had Starburst in her hand because that was her favorite candy and I went right to the gravide as well I mean I could have walked away anytime Steve but I said I have got to understand what people go through through traumatic events if I’m going to be able to help them so I probably shouldn’t have done that today if I look back at it because it still haunts me so much yeah but I think it made me a better human being to really be a part of that so I can better connect with people when we’re dealing with homicide victims or we’re dealing with you know suicides or whatever right to just to do a better job at that and I I think there’s a lot of things that policemen do out there that are far are way above and beyond what they have to do because they’re just trying so hard to be better at their job just like all of us are right we’re all doing things and trying to get better at it but when they do it it it comes with a hell of a price man and um but that was it man that was the most excruciating traumatic event that I’ve ever experienced so yeah brother that is tough my goodness with kids it’s always hard man kids make it I mean everybody makes it hard right but when there’s little children the Innocence something about the Innocence just just takes part of your soul with you so yeah absolutely yeah if with anybody else you can you can kind of build a story or you can kind of see how they got into this or what what happened you know and very least even if they’re also just a victim they’ve they’ve lived a life you know what I mean they’re not like completely Pure White innocent like a child so that is that’s rough brother and did you um you must have made a good connection with the family or maybe they were too distraught to even it was very it was very challenging too just because I mean you you really wanted to talk to the parents and it was very hard to do that because they were deaf um right but um I think with with me just being there yeah I think that I think that sent a strong enough message to them that I wasn’t going to let him go through the alone so yeah you know what it’s not it’s not about me right you know it’s I you always want to be able to say the exact right thing to make the pain go away but you can’t do that what you can do is you can be there you can love people support them and care for them right and that’s I think that does a lot of healing yeah absolutely yeah it’s like doing a um death notification you know it’s like the first the first couple you do you’re like maybe trying too much or whatever you’re like once you realize you there’s really nothing you can say you can be with the person you can sit with them and you can you can help them a little bit you know just be near them or even put your hand on their back you know but there’s there’s really nothing you can do to take what they’re going through away that’s just the fact you just have to sit there luckily we did not have to do that on the police department here in Indianapolis they have chaplain and people that make those death notif if I had to do that I would not do the job I could not handle that I just no way that’s that’s great I’ve been with off I’ve been with officers right and even Chaplin that have made notifications they come out and they’re freaking balling their eyes out yeah they’re like I freaking hate this job I hate this right um but they do they put that uniform back on and do it again so yeah my um makes me think of my I was just thinking the other day about my pastor he’s a really good guy and he’s very like he’s just one of those guys you meet and he’s like perfect for being a pastor he’s just like even killed he never rushes to judgment he’s always got something wise to say like just Andy’s a great guy you can have a beer with him you know what I mean like he’s a down toe guy um but he goes and he sits with our dying the dying members of our congregation every single one if it’s local he’s there he go and he’ll can visits some under deathbed repeatedly praise with them it’s like it’s got to rip them apart you know I I it’s really got to be tough and I’m sure they get all kinds of you know um um training on how to how to deal with it and and you know guide people that way unless in and at least it’s a spiritual aspect of it you know it’s we have faith that they’re going to somewhere greater so but still man um that that’s really got to take it out of you you know you have to I mean there’s there’s a sight of us we all can know this right is we can put that wall up right and we can pretend all we want to that this doesn’t bother us it but it does and we try to use we try to become calloused so the Pain’s not so bad we act like we don’t care you know to to hide what’s truly happening inside of us but um that’s what I just I think the community just totally misses Steve is that I don’t think they realize what policemen really go through on over a career and over the rest of their life after they even after they retire um the toll that it takes on them mentally and I just think if they really knew that that I think they would love the police a lot more than they do and I and to be honest with you I think 98% of the people love the cops right I think there’s a small voice out there that’s Extremely Loud and I think a lot of policemen are listening to that loud voice and those people tend to make our lives miserable sometimes but we H we can’t stop doing what we’re doing for the 2% that 98% needs us to do our job absolutely so and that’s why you’re on here man I mean there’s thousands of people listen to this podcast that are not cops and and I love getting messages of people that were like on the fence or just curious and then they’re like wow it was it was really interesting listening to your guest talk like they’re just it’s almost like they’re like oh they’re normal people They have feelings you know what I mean it’s like they yeah they didn’t like just like give me my badge give me my gun when do I get to shoot a sucker you know that’s like right that’s like that’s what they think we’re going to be running and gunning they’re not thinking like no shootouts are terrifying by the way they’re and they create all kinds of um scars and people it’s like not it’s not great it’s not the movies you know but I think Steve it’s like I I mean I would we do a lot of ride alongs and bring people on and I remember I was was on a ride along somebody was riding with me and they’re like man it’s kind of dead out here it’s kind of boring like you know what these are good nights for us sometimes right because sometimes we yeah and it means people aren’t getting hurt and people aren’t getting stabbed or you know what I mean I mean that’s that’s really our goal guys right it’s I mean we all were like let’s go get into some let’s let’s go you know be Superman and go you know save the day but when nothing’s happening no one’s calling for help that’s a pretty damn good day man yeah yeah absolutely that’s really what we want so yep absolutely Jamon uh let’s uh lighten it up a little bit can you can you tell us uh a heartwarming encounter you’ve had on the job well this is kind of a this is kind of where my when I be had a little bit of an ego uh when I first started speaking of rideal alongs and um my brother-in-law was with me and I was I had a chip on my shoulder a little bit right and I kind of starting to get a little calloused and I was working in a really rough area of town and um I remember um getting a call for a young lady that was laying in the vestibule of a church and I remember getting the call I got there and the vestibule was not enclosed it was just like and she was trying to get warm it was pretty cold outside and I grabbed a hold of her and I said hey come on with me I picked her up and I you know she was extremely intoxicated and so I brought her into the um uh put her in the I said I’m going to go ahead and put you in the car but don’t mess my police car up you hear me and she was whacked out right so I P put her in the in the back right she wasn’t under arrest at this point I just wanted her to get warm and so I put her back there and um all of a sudden she started going through all my freaking paperwork back there and throwing freaking [ __ ] all over the place I’m like great oh and then I’m just like I get mad my brother-in-law is a good Christian dude right and he’s just like chilling watching this all go down and I get out I slam my door and I go around I open the door and I pull her out and I put handcuffs on her and I said that’s it you’re just I’m going to take you down I can’t freaking believe you just did that and I put the handcuffs on her and I called for a wagon and put her back in the car and he’s just chilling just sitting there and wagan shows up and put her in the car and he goes that was pretty interesting he said what do you think about her I said she’s just a freaking crackhead and man it was like dead silence and I’m like uh oh and he said can I ask you an honest question I said whatever and he said do you think in God’s eyes you’re any better than she is I got irritated with him right I was you know I was I was a little hyped up at that point yeah like I’m like you don’t know what you’re talking about right just if you don’t do this every day just he said I just want you to think about that anyway we did another hour and I dropped him off and of course when I’m driving home it’s you know it’s soul searching time what did I experience that night and I’m like you know what he’s 100% right who am I to think that I am any better than that young lady who was on drugs freezing he said I think you saved that girl’s life tonight you very well could have and it was just it made my heart it was like my heart totally change Steve it was like wow I finally became I I started to take that oath of protecting and serving and I started to do both I started to not just focus on the protecting side I said I also have an obligation to serve and that’s that was that was the night where it all changed and I mean of course we all have our bad days right we always get irritated and of course a lot of bad things but that was really the time that just made me say I took an oath to do both and I’m going to do both and it’s a common discussion that we have all the time with each other as officers right is we’re doing a good job protecting but how we doing Serving right are you the cop that’s gets pissed off because somebody ask you directions how to go some get somewhere right or are you irritated with you know some little kid coming up and yanking on your pants or you know what I mean or just you know what I mean just when we arrive scene people have very few um interactions with police in their lifetime right we need to make that as positive as we possibly can you know if we can right if we can have a POS let’s make that happen if we can and realize that deep down is we’re there to serve that community and that Community is all colors that Community is just all different mindsets and whatever that is and it doesn’t matter if they look like us or don’t look like us believe what we believe or don’t believe what we believe our job is to serve that community and once I think officers really start to see that and start to live a career of balance of the protecting and the serving that’s when they really start I think start developing more as as as a policeman so but that’s that was really it that was kind of a that was a come to Jesus moment for me it’s a beautiful story man I love it it’s it’s great you were open to it a lot of people wouldn’t be a lot of people wouldn’t think twice about it I I wasn’t open at first but I um conscious got in there I again Steve I think I think God was so much a part of every aspect of my job as a policeman even though I was doing it for free but I learned so much I became a different human being people that knew me before and know me today you know you can look at my face right and everybody says I have a the RCF the resting cop face or some people would say the RBF right right um I remember my daughter coming up to me one time and saying um Dad can you stop looking like an angry serial killer because you’re scaring my friends and it’s just you know how we are right as policemen we just have that laser focused look sometimes and it looks like we’re just ready to yeah we’re very unapproachable looking or whatever but um I’m I’m a different person I am today but um I I still think about it dream about it and I’m a big supporter of police and will’ll do anything I can to help those guys in gals so yeah it’s great man one last question for you Jamon oh yeah sure popular one um advice to new officers you got tons of folks who are on the fence they watch the show they watch the men and women uh tell these stories and it really they really sink in and uh it sometimes helps them make a decision to become a police officer and those are the best emails I get so what would you tell these folks out there watching what I still think it’s the most one of the most honorable jobs that you could ever have um whether you do that as a reserve or you do that um fulltime um there’s so much reward that comes from it um to be able to I was talking to a retired Captain the other day and he asked me he said why is it that you did this as a reserve and I was like man I just want to help people and I know that sounds cheesy but that’s really why I do it right I want to have an impact in people’s lives yeah and he said that is not at all cheesy I think that’s where we all start and I think we all if we continue to do soul searching and work through that right then we’ll can that’s really the ultimate why we do what we do um and we just have to remember that um but I mean the reward is far greater than the sacrifice that that you have to go through and just it’s a couple things that and I when I joined man cops was really big right on TV and everybody was like oh man that’s so awesome that’s what it’s like all the time and it’s not like that all the time right they they do a good job of filming uh the exciting times but there’s a lot of downtime right when yeah um when you’re just you know we enjoy that downtime as well but it’s where you build the camaraderie and the team and you do all those things and and then when it’s time to to go into police action man it’s we’re really good at what we do you know we we really we do that and um I think the only thing that I’m going to say and I think if I don’t want to I don’t want to scare scare people away and I won’t do that but um you have to think about the mental impact that it will have on you and that it will change you as a person and if you are aware of that and you are open to counseling and you’re open to talking about some of these thoughts that you’re having or challenges that you’re having you can have a fantastic career I just don’t want people to go into into the career thinking that it’s you know all I mean I don’t think they think it’s all rainbows and unicorns right I think they don’t think that anymore right but I think there is so much comaraderie and so much teamwork that goes on in what we do and to be able to be the guy or gal that can come and save the day and help and have an impact in somebody’s life is man that’s so rewarding but just to be aware that there are challenges that come with it and just ask that you be honest with yourself be honest with your supervisors and if you’re having challenges to talk about those things and be present when you’re home I wanted to say this real quick before we we cut off here Steve but another chapter in my book is called I wish I was here and I remember my wife coming up to me and I’d been working a lot lately and I was sitting in the living room and she says you know what I really wish you were here I’m like what she said you’re not here you’re often Never Never Land and I don’t know if it was just hypervigilance or what was happening in my brain but she said you have got to be here when you’re here because the kids need you to be here and I need you to be here and it talks about making sure that you’re present where you are right and yeah trying to battle through those types of things and um there’s a lot of aspects that that start happening in your life and when you’re changing as a policeman and if you’re aware of what those are it makes it a lot easier because Steve when I went through it man I did not know anything about it and I thought I was the only one fighting this and I was the only one fighting for life and I was scared to death and um know that it’s out there know that there are going to be challenges but man I say put that badge on and go do something fantastic for your community and for your own life I love it man thank you so much it was absolute honor to have you and uh the stories were great brother um awesome do you have time when I do the outro to uh chat for a sec sure absolutely I appreciate yeah all right thank you sir the Great Jamon Jack awesome stories um so happy to get someone on here from Indianapolis um really really cool really interesting hearing about the how the reserves work there really tight program I mean that’s the way that’s the way it’s got to be I hope people take note um really awesome let me see here and also uh I will get from Jamon the the link to his book when it’s out and I will put that out for you guys so that you can grab it CU it sounds like uh he’s going to be writing some really great experiences and it’s going to be one hell of a book so we will do that so um now it’s time for me to honor the patreon sergeant who I’m talking about is a great and powerful Andy bigs Greg Gad Boy Adam mihal the great Chris Jude Gary Steiner everybody Jake Pineo the one and only the great John Shoemaker Lauren Stimson ladies and gentlemen the handsome Lane camels camel Campbell Seth Wright everybody James Rose ladies and gentlemen the Great Tony Fahy none other than the great Ben Peters Jason La thank you sir the great Sasha McNab Scott minkler everyone the great Tammy Walsh holding it down a dispatch William James long that’s definitely William James long to you thank you very much Sean Clifford Dennis kisio everybody Iceman for motorcop Chronicles check out his podcast George Tessier I’ll see you at church Brother Scott young the great Thomas Connell Dan Carlson from Burly boards check out his 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