Inside Quantico – FBI Agent Kenneth Strange

this is things police see firstand accounts with your host Steve gold welcome to the podcast at interviews active and retired police officers about their most intense bizarre and sometimes humorous moments on the job I am Steve G old Ginger face coming at you thank you for joining us thank you for being here thank you for coming back thank you for all the binge listening that’s going on I truly appreciate that the numbers are great for the show and uh I love it I love hearing from you guys I love the emails I get I love the emails about people who um use the show to listen to the men and women of law enforcement and get inspired to join the ranks because that’s absolutely what we need especially nowadays but I feel like I feel like the pendulum will swing or is swinging back I think people are uh getting sick of the nonsense I think they they’re seeing through the lies of the media um people are reading FBI statistics and seeing that the police actually are pretty damn good at their job and uh for any in for any profession the uh the amount the police screw up is actually very low and that’s because of extensive backgrounds done to get police officers on the job it’s extensive and they want to make sure we’re not getting schlubs um that is um at the same time the pendulum swinging back we are also nationally seemingly lowering background standards because we can’t get people because of the negative it’s a horrible uh snake eating its tail scenario but I think in the long run we will be fine guys thank you for the rating and reviewing that’s been going on thank you so much to the patreon sponsors of the show they keep the boat afloat they keep the lights on here they pay all the bills for the podcast pay for this software and the website and the uh podcast hosting and all the other things so uh thank you to you guys patreon sergeants as you will hear get a shout out at the end of the show if you want to do that the link is in the show notes you can join there join the community there’s a couple different tiers I will send you hold on hold on I’ll send you one of these uh fantastic TPS vinyl stickers so you can proudly display your support for the show so if you can’t no worries as always the show will remain free I understand that things are tough times are tough uh I’m remain free because I want everybody that wants to to be able to hear the show and I have to tell you just a little insight into my finances and I I’ve talked about this with a bunch of friends and family lately just about you know the economy and how things are going um how they tell you are going how they tell you they are going versus how they’re actually going and I probably this year will have made more money in a single year than I’ve um ever made in my life and I have less money to show for it it is insane uh three kids and a wife and um I don’t know4 $500 a week at the grocery store so we’re looking at like on a bad month two grand mortgage went up uh $360 because of uh local taxes so it’s it’s bad out there it sucks it used to be if you really put your nose at the grindstone and you work 70 hours a week you would uh pay down debt you would have savings and that just did not happen at all for me anyways this year and it’s just because everything’s so damn expensive so all that to say this podcast will remain inexpensive free uh if that’s what tickles your fancy and if you really have some extra shekel you want to throw my way I truly appreciate it but um without further Ado let me get to the intro of today’s guest very excited to have this gentleman on we are talking about a retired FBI agent member of the joint terrorism task force and special agent in charge of the doj office of Inspector General in Los Angeles former pi and author of the bestseller a copson won g man’s fight against Jihad Global fraud and cartels his book can be found on Amazon in Barnes & Noble without further Ado let me bring on the great Kenneth strange Jr Ken hey hey Steve thank you very much for having me on I I loved your uh Preamble there I think it was uh spot on uh hey look absolute pleasure to be on your wonderful wonderful show and uh have I heard this correctly that you know you may have a gig with investigation discovery something like that yeah I did I actually just did um I shot a SI I think six or seven episode little series um called exposed naked crimes and I had it uh it’s up now I think the last one comes out this week or it came out so I’ll six or seven of them are up now on HBO Max and in investigation discovery so pretty surreal wow that’s great great congrats thanks man yeah it was cool I mean when I started the podcast it years ago I never thought podcast would really they’re at the point where the the producer told me we just searched we needed um basically what they need is not to give myself too much credit they just need that someone with law enforcement background that they know can talk on camera and they don’t want to waste time like finding people so they find a handful of people they interview him then they pick one so they found the podcast they said it came up in the top for law enforcement and they saw me watched me briefly on this channel and they were like yeah he’ll do you know he let’s see if he wants to do it and you know it was basically a uh this production the Texas crew production company put it together for Discovery Channel and it’s it’s it’s kind of like a glorified clip show you know they they’ve collected um closed circuit security footage cell phone footage of just people doing insane things naked felonies committing felonies naked oh yeah yeah I mean we shot the thing and put it together in like a month so wow wow yeah they I think they I think the probably the profit margin is real high for this type of show where they can um not pay celebrities or anybody famous to do a commentary and they pay you but it’s not what someone who’s wellknown would get at all and then right they have the footage for free sure so bam I I think it’s a win-win for them and it’s for me because they put up um hosted things pleas things pleasy podcast under my name so right right wonderful I’ll take it you know yeah terrific terrific hell yeah but so let me ask you Ken um long and fantastic career in the FBI uh which is very cool your father though was NYPD and he he raised you in in New York um what made you did you go for mypd were you on there at all or did you just go right to the federal system yeah no so I went uh right to the federal system but you know you mentioned my father uh so he uh he had 38 years in NYPD uh you know he rose rose through the ranks uh almost four decades uh fighting crime in in in New York and he had you know he done a lot of uh seen a lot of amazing things over those almost 40 years I mean he was I mean he was just uh I mean but un you you know was unusual he actually started out uh being selected for the police Glee Club the police if you can believe that yeah so you know uh he’s in the academy and uh I guess they handed out questionnaires you know what’s your strength what your weaknesses things like that what can you do and uh he he wrote down that you know he could sing and and he could he was a very good singer and he was you know in the in the chorus and yeah he was in school school plays in high school and so he put down singing and so the next thing you know the I guess the supervisor comes in says okay Mal Ro you go to the beat you you walk that beat over on that street and you’re going down car 54 uh handri you go car 54 a strange uh glee club and they had a they had a glee club for the the NYPD believe it or not so so his uh I mean his uh his his colleague were not happy about that you know to see him go off and start singing and they’re doing the beat you walking a beat so but it it only lasted six months because the NYPD uh decided to shut down the Glee Club and put more cops on the street and uh so so yeah just getting back to my dad so he you know uh I I grew up in a world of of cops and uh I I got to know um you know we’d be at barbecues and I’d play softball I was always like that right fielder that they needed that they couldn’t get so they throw throw me in with the with the adults similar to me yeah yeah and so that you know that was my world growing up and these you know these cops were my heroes I mean these were these were and continue to be the good guys and so they they they were my role models and uh you know anything uh I watched all kinds of PD shows and movies anything to do with the police I loved it and you know all the way down to Dirty Harry and I could I could do every Dirty Harry movie I knew all the quotes and and and that stuff so you know I I said to my dad I said Dad I really would like to be NYPD I mean I just you know NYPD it’s in my blood sure and and he said you know that’s great he he said but you know you should you should consider the feds as a possibility as well he he said uh you know NYPD is great I love it I’m not but you know there were other options as well with police type work so um you know long story short I actually uh started off in a career in uh teaching uh for a few years you know I thought I wanted to be a teacher but then that uh yeah and so then um you know I was doing a a master’s out in Arizona and this um uh this FBI agent came on campus and he uh you know he said uh he met with a bunch of us and I was kind of interested to see what the FBI offered I wasn’t exactly dying to go to go with them or anything I was just curious and he said uh you know your background is pretty interesting you know you’ve been overseas for a number of years you uh speak some basic Arabic uh you’re fluent in Spanish uh you know we we could use people with your language abilities in the FBI so that’s when it started to light a fire uh for me I thought maybe maybe you know maybe this could be the challenge I’m looking for so I uh you know inevitably I I decided to go with with the bureau you know with the FBI it’s very cool imagine that the people in the school must have been like strange is going to be an FBI agent this is this is crazy well you know it’s interesting Steve because the school uh is known for it’s International it’s a you know you get your degree in in International Management whatever so actually they were churning out uh CIA agents as well you know the CIA would come to the school and recruit uh you know for the language people so it wasn’t wasn’t all that odd that uh you know law enforcement or or or SP spy uh spy organizations would come on the campus to to to recruit yeah I bet I mean CIA man that CIA is spooky to me it scares me the I remember I haven’t been on their website a long time but back in the day I looked at all different forms of law enforcement and I talked to NCIS for a little bit and decided not to do it but remember going on the CIA cuz you see all the movies you’re like hey this looks cool so what are these what are they doing and they’re spies a lot of them and then they’re like on their website they had like the different departments and then one of them was cland clandestine operations and I mean right out there just saying it like hey this is the sneaky stuff and you clicked on it and that that part of their website just had like a paragraph basically telling you nothing except that they’re spies and it was like wow that’s that’s the real deal I don’t know about the you know they always see the guys in the news and they’re like anytime there’s a in the world like oh the agency has boots on the ground there there’s CIA guys there you yeah yeah yeah Jack Jack Ryan right Jack Ryan yeah exactly um so that’s cool man the FBI is uh is got such a cool history what interests me is the hearing about the academy a little bit because that’s is that’s quanico right Virginia is where they go yes yes that’s right uh quanico uh yeah I I showed up uh you know I got my marching orders they said uh you know here’s a ticket uh uh fly down a national airport in DC and and there was a bus one of those yellow school buses waiting for us oh wow all all 40 of us yeah and uh and and Steve it was a quite a you know when I looked about it before I I did the show I was kind of looking at the the roster the the names of the the people that were in my class uh 89 um we had few Hispanic agents uh uh some one or two from Puerto Rico we had some African-American uh agents uh and and and so on and so forth so it was it was a diverse uh diverse group uh I just wish I was in a little better physical shape uh before I went um I went down there because uh uh waiting for us was the was the physical fitness test which was right which was no joke and uh you know I was a little bit on the older side of the U of the group I was uh 34 years old and uh the cut off as you may know at the time was 35 so I was just a year away from being cut off a lot of these kids I call them kids but but you know they were in their late 20s so they were little little bit fitter than me um and I I was I was a little bit delusional I thought oh geez I I I could run a mile and a half although the test was two miles you know right yeah that extra two laps can make a big difference you know oh yeah heck yeah so uh so I uh you know I got there just a a little bit out of shape and um it it cost me on the on the first physical fitness test I got I Got U um I I didn’t do so well I ended up in the remedial class uhoh uh there was there was several of us that went to the remedial class but you know actually uh probably the best thing that happened to me was was um not doing so well on the test because um I thought I really have to get better I’m going to work hard I want to keep up with the rest of them I certainly uh the fear of failure you don’t want to you don’t want to fail uh and and um you know there were uh two guys in the class that uh you know had a word to say to me after I uh you know almost puked my guts out on the two- mile run uh they said you know hey strange too many Bankers lunches for you buddy oh man you and and yeah that and that hurt you know I’m I’m bent over heaving and and these guys really uh with the Zinger and I thought you know what I’m gonna kick your ass when I when we go back in for the final exam in a in a few weeks in a few months whatever I’m gonna kick your ass I’m gonna beat you guys I’ll show you and I did I came back and I did great I love it but but it was but I thank thanks thanks for that guys because it just gave me that fuel that fire to kind of uh uh to hang in there to pass it and to maybe even Excel a little bit no that’s great yeah there I remember in my Academy there um we’d run in formation if anybody fell out we would the DI would have us start chanting sick lame and lazy you know or something about being fat you know like um right fat body or whatever but I don’t know if they’re still using language like that but um it it certainly is motivating especially I mean being in your 30s that’s older for that type of stuff like we had um in my class we had like a uh I think he was almost 50y old um guy who was a retired postmaster wow and he just decided to be a copper and like that he didn’t even have much time because they want you out at I I think the oldest you can be in mass is um they raised it to 65 I think then you have to get out um but but he was like a runner like that type of guy like tall like he was like always doing Fitness so he he was he was fine with that but I’m curious with the FBI because they let people become cops pretty young in this country and a lot of times you have to um and I’m not saying anything against anybody in particular but I know my brain when I was 21 and what my brain’s like in my 30s now my early 40s um does the FBI will they take somebody in their early 20s or they want somebody mid late 20s so I mean I think the requirements are such that uh it’s usually people no I would say uh no sooner than in their mid 20s because they’re looking for people with a minimum you know like a college degree uh and then uh three years at when I went through it was three years of a professional uh experience or a job so you had to have had three three years that makes sense you know so Mo most yeah so most of them were coming in maybe I would say from 26 to 29 years old was this group uh at their early somewhat 30 and of course I was on the other side of the scale at 34 but uh you know they uh they were choosing people uh I noticed that they were looking for people with a law background they were accounting background you know I was in the language program uh there were uh police officers that had you know done done uh you know five seven 10 years wherever and they would you know recruiting police officers and and former military as well we had two or three two or three people from the uh from the US military as well yeah that’s interesting that’s kind of like it was with the NCIS because I had I had some law enforcement background but I also I graduated with a uh computer degree believe it or not that was my major so they were like you kind of are exactly at the time they were really looking for that someone with some law enforcement experience but also had a computer degree so that was was that’s kind of what got me interested in like oh they’re looking for that you know but then they laid out the whole special agent like where you’ll be I you know I just bought a house I had a puppy I lived near my family and they were like right well that the guy was honest with me he wasn’t like a you like a navy recruiter or something he was like yeah you’re going to be um away from home and like because I wanted to I was like what could I how long would it take me to get to the subbase in Rhode Island in Newport because that’s New England you know that’s that’ be close and he was like right now the way things are he’s like uh 10 15 years and I was like o i mean to get where you want to go you know I know I know yes I kind of wied out I’m I’m a home body you know I like being near my family and all that stuff I hear you yeah I mean uh absolutely I mean you you have to make a choice you have to be comfortable with with that I I uh you know I put in for new New York that was my kind of office of choice uh only because at the time New York the New York FBI was kind of like the flagship of the of the FBI and so and I was also from New York although I was living in New Jersey and U didn’t tell anybody about that but you know when I when I got when I got my assignment uh you know it said NC and I said what what WTF what what’s this and and I was so angry and I said no this is not what I wanted you know for few minutes I was like I’m gonna quit I’m out of here I I I demand New York and it’s a higher pay you know it’s higher pay over there you know uh but it turned out uh Steve it was the best thing that that ever happened uh to me because uh if I had gone to New York uh I would have ended up on the applicant Squad going around for about six months to a year interviewing people uh that wanted uh federal jobs and interviewing their references oh jeez and that’s and S yeah I right snorefest and you know this is not the bureau I wanted to that’s not what I had envisioned uh so fortunately I ended up in Newark it was much smaller and then someone had the foresight to see wait a second a strange uh you know he’s he’s fluent in Spanish basic Arabic and he lived in the Middle East for five years you know we have a terrorism task force you know maybe there could be a fit with this kid and and with our task Sports and that’s the way it went down so I was I was very fortunate and I don’t think that would have happened in U in uh New York yeah absolutely I’m curious with um with FBI agents like you’re saying some of them end up on the application squad or whatever um how do they how do they get them exposed to because like if they weren’t cops before like say they weren’t street cops street cops run into people they deal with people they deal with going handson and buckling people it’s just kind of part of the job if you take a a guy or girl who doesn’t have that background um and the nature of FBI FBI investigations can be a lot more I’m sure tedious and the crescendo doesn’t come to later how do they do those people naturally kind of um gravitate towards situations where they won’t be like doing bus and kicking indoors or do they just kind of get brought along with on do they try to expose them to that more when they’re younger well you know I guess they uh you know you’re exposed to this u in in in in quano you mean you have all those uh role role playing and they have a thing called Hogan alley over there uh where they set up a whole town and then they do all these scenarios oh W so you know I guess it’s uh I guess they look at it like yeah well it’s not a complete waste of time for you because you are uh gaining interview skills as you go and interview people and that’s always important and I guess that’s how they they they they looked upon it but it was just uh uh for me it was you know I’m I’m 34 I don’t want to be you know I’ve done interviews it’s not wasting any time life yeah please I mean I’m running out of time and you you know you you can you can actually use me for other you know other purposes thank goodness someone saw that get you stuck there gez you’re really good at these interviews how about you be the supervisor for the interview Squad no well well Steve how about this you know I’m on the squad and my boss calls me in and he says strange uh you’re the you’re the FNG I said what’s an F FNG and he says you’re the you know and I don’t want to say it on the air but he said you are it and I and he said I don’t know how you got on this squad strange I don’t know for the life of me but but I’m stuck with you now so and I’m like oh my God what what a nice warm welcome classic I love it um yeah so I want to ask you about your Academy you did have a um pretty interesting guest appearance there from uh a Hollywood star yes we did uh yeah they were they were filming uh Silence of the Lambs uh back back in quanico and I guess it was in our ninth week or so eighth or ninth week of the academy and uh we were told that uh please be on your best behavior uh young men and women here uh we have an actress that will be attending classes with you and she’ll be doing Firearms with you and she’ll be doing defensive tactics with you I’m like huh whatd and and then and then in walks Jody Foster Silence of the Lambs you know agent Starling Clarice she’s trying to you know she’s trying to get into the whole mode and and stuff so was was quite interesting she was very quiet uh she was very uh serious serious about uh her time with us um and uh you know she actually went out on a run run with us Steve she did the yellow brick road uh which is like I think a like a 10K with obstacle course stuff in B in between and she actually uh yeah she actually uh took part she did fairly well uh she had a rough time on the cargo net Nets and stuff but you know she’s an actress what would you expect right but but she but she held her own in the run and uh I actually sat on the bus with her Steve just she and I together cool and I and I you know tried to be nice and I said uh uh Miss Foster you know we’re going to have a beer later tonight in the boardroom uh you know if you’d like to join us uh that that’d be nice and she just looked at me and said no thanks and just kind of turned away looked out the window maybe she was thinking of Hannibal Lecter I don’t know right yeah I mean maybe she was just trying to like you know cuz actors take that stuff so serious maybe she was like I need to stay in this head space I I have a certain view of how they are and I don’t want to like you know get to know them or something exactly right so I never really got to know her but but she was in she was in our classes and uh you know the movie as you know was was pretty good that’s cool imagine I mean the power of Hollywood they get access to the FBI Academy but probably through a phone call you know yes I think that’s that’s how it happened uh yeah for sure but you know very uh I I ran into her again uh we were down in the basement uh with the behavioral analysis unit the you know the Silence of the Lamb’s unit and and she was down there and I I remember passing her down there and I I didn’t recognize her at first because no makeup and she’s very she’s very short and I act and she was dressed in khakis you know dressed down so I thought she was like uh the cleaning staff or something and then she turned around like oh whoa that’s that’s that’s that’s the girl on the bus with me right and she probably was she that that famous back then she she was known a little bit right yeah she was known a little bit she’d been in the movie with um you know as a kind of a child actress I forget the name of the movie oh that’s right Robert dairo right Bob dairo and you know one of those one of those movies so so she was known for sure but this really this really catapulted her into the stratosphere what a movie that was that movie she did a great job she really played her part well but uh and I was I was I was thinking about that a little bit and um uh recently and just thinking about how how disturb that had a lot the movie had a lot it was kind of like when the excist came out back in the day and was like yeah people were like this you can’t even see this movie people people are having heart attacks in the theater like there was this the level of um crudeness and how twisted it was was really G groundbreaking it was like disgusting absolutely yeah violent violent and uh yeah very creepy super creepy yeah buddy of mine back um a few years ago had you know that that the guy uh Buffalo Bly kind of dances to the song and he’s like you know oh yes tucking his junk between his legs and well there that band that play that song that plays during that is like a I think it’s like a madeup band for that movie or they made the song just for that movie and he had it at his ringtone and was playing and I was like it was giving me like I was like why does that song why do I know that song and why do I not like it and he’s like oh it’s the one when Buffalo Bill dances I’m like oh what’s wrong with you yeah that’ll give you the Willies yeah horrible all right Ken um that that was super interesting can can you take us back to the um it’s GNA be a little bit different because you’re you’re uh FBI agent but uh can you take us back to the first time on a call not necessarily maybe your early career but the first time you had a hot call where like your adrenaline got going and you really thought oh boy something could go wrong here yeah I mean uh of course the nature of the uh FBI is a little bit uh different from uh local law enforcement as as as you know but but but that being said you know I was a I was part of this jttf uh Squad called C10 and uh you know this this was a pretty pretty interesting Squad and again diverse and uh uh but there was so much stuff happening and it was uh one of the these uh places where uh you really had to be at the top of your game you just had to because they were handling all kinds of uh terrorism uh situations and we were working all kinds of groups from uh the Jewish Defense League to PLO to the Abu nidal to the Japanese Red Army and everything in between everything in between so was I I called I called it and I called it in my book the candy store we were in this candy store of terrorism um so so what I’m I’m I’m there maybe uh Steve uh just a few weeks uh maybe three or four weeks and all of a sudden there’s like a a Christmas party and it’s being hosted by the special agent in charge who was a guy uh that was just come uh transferred from San Diego and uh you know he believe it or not it was like the FBI was his hobby because he had actually come out of a banking family and they were you know very wealthy family out of Chicago so he had invited us to his house and it was just kind of a lavish type party and uh you know we’re just introducing our wives to his wife and you know the whole thing and all of a sudden our beepers are going off like crazy just flashing and you know all of a sudden okay okay stop what you’re doing everyone uh there’s a situation at the Newark uh International Airport Uh something’s going down so you know you know we’re kissing our wives goodbye it was like we were going off to war or something you know he finish his beer yeah of course the wives are pissed they’re they like what you know we just got dressed up now you guys are leaving uh so we a bunch of us ran off to the uh Newark Airport and it turned out that the the it it involved a um uh a uh Portuguese uh National who was living in nework of course nework has a big Portuguese and Brazilian population and this fellow apparently was sexually assaulting his daughter and he was about to skip to town and oh wow and and so we had to we actually went on the plane this was this was amazing and this is when uh it hit home I said Jesus this is really the real [ _ ] here I mean you know I I flash my badge and and people move away and I say FBI and people you know there’s a reaction and I said you know this is really a powerful uh little toy I have in my hand and and and so you know we went on the uh plane and we just ripped the guy out out of his seat like now the passengers you know this is right in the gate and they’re getting ready to push off and the passengers are like what the hell’s going on so so we grab the guy he’s petrified out of his mind and um uh it turned out we did not have enough to actually uh detain him he was somehow able to talk his way out of it and or or something it’s been a long time but uh in the end we had to uh we had to kind of put him back in his seat you know point a finger at him and you know threaten him saying you know we’ll be here when you get back because his family investigations ongoing ongoing investigation but we just didn’t have enough uh to to hold him so that that that was probably the you know the first situation where my you know my uh heart rate went up and and I just realized that you know this is a serious game I’m and I’m not saying that this situation per se was significant because in the end it was not and in fact I remember doing interviews with the wife she spoke Portuguese no English and I spoke Spanish and you know I was the best that they had so I’m actually interviewing her uh you using Spanish and I realized Portuguese is not quite the same as Spanish I learned that the hard the hard way uh but she she in the end would not cooperate uh either she was protect she was protecting her husband but actually he was actually sexually assaulting uh his his kid but but again but again that that was just uh you that’s when my heartbreak and I said this is really a joint terrorism task force I’m really you know I’m where I want to be and this is exciting exciting stuff yeah absolutely yeah I mean it’s it is like the movies if you it’s one thing to say you’re hey I’m a cop and you tinum or whatever people be like cop what agency what you know cop from with the FBI it’s like everybody knows the FBI everybody knows that little gold badge you know what I mean like that that’s right that’s cool um Ken can you can you think back to a strange or bizarre thing you dealt with in your investigations yeah um yeah I think the strangest most bizarre case uh I handled was um out of San Antonio Texas uh I was um I was I was now with the Department of Justice office of Inspector General I had moved on from the FBI and I was uh based out of El Paso Texas and we got a um you know we got a call from uh the US Marshals office of internal affairs and they said that they had some um female prisoners that had been sexually assaulted by a marshall Service uh detention enforcement officer a Deo so is that like a prison guard for them yeah uh you know these are the people that would would uh normally do jpats flights with prisoners and you know as you like you would see in the the movie The Fugitive that uh so that was this guy’s uh background but he was at the uh working at the courthouse in San Antonio and the courthouse um is a kind of it’s in a circular configuration so what this guy was doing is he was um calling over to uh contract a uh facility that that held the inmates and in this case female inmates and he would call over and say I need uh you know I need Jessica she needs to do some paperwork with me and and so they would dispatch Jessica to him and then all of a sudden Jessica is you know in in their chains and leg chains and he’s removing them and she’s sitting down there now because it’s a circular configuration uh there are no cameras no CCTV cameras that can see what he’s doing and right next to his station his workstation where he has a computer uh there’s a little hold holding cell so he can actually go in there and that’s what he was doing he was taking uh women in in there calling up take take them and then he was uh having his way with them um but but not in the kind of ordinary sexual uh fashion you would you would you would think of although maybe on maybe one or two occasions he did the rest of it involved this foot fetish thing uh called and I and I I never and I’m from New York City and I never heard of heard of this stuff so I guess maybe because my mother kept me away from these things you’re yeah you’re a good normal person yeah yeah uh to Steve it was toe sucking so you know so now here so here were these girls and of course you’re always worried with inmates that they’re going to gang up on law enforcement officers and you know and because that happens and you know that happens that they’ll they’ll lie to get some kind of advantage or to sue whatever sue them or whatever you know that’s that’s common stuff but here were women that were um that didn’t even know each other and they were all uh giving this story this kind of the same story of you know calls me up I don’t know what the hell I’m doing I go over there and he says uh you know uh I’m GNA suck your toes and and they go what the no please don’t do that and he goes well I’m gonna do it and if you don’t do it I’m you see this computer here I’m going to add time to your sentence and I know you have a child and I know you want to see your child so he would threaten and you know some of them you know they they were scared you know and they they they weren’t sure some of them said well I how could he do that that’s that’s impossible but but then you know maybe I better do what he what he what he and and and so uh that was that was hiso and uh the other one was he would also he was kind of into kind of sadism uh Mochis sis ma masochism and he would ask the girls to to kick him in the nut nuts my gosh and I remember one girl said oh I love doing that I hated the guy so much and I would kick him and he would like oh you know and then he would catch his breath and he’d say again please again oh my God and and she said absolutely and I’ll do it again to you you son of a you know so and yeah and so he would tell the girls also the girls you know my fantasy with you is you know I’m going toh take you out of here and I’m I’m going to take you to my home and I have a I’m going to wear a judge’s robe and uh I’m going to have my own you know Court thing with you girls and then uh I’m I’m going to have sex with you I’m going to take my robe off I’ll be naked and we’ll have sex you know just just crazy stuff wow and and and you know just couldn’t believe it and then uh you know the prosecutor couldn’t believe it either and he said oh you know this this I don’t know about this and I said well look uh please listen to these I think there were four women listened to each and every one of these women uh and he was skeptical he was the prosecutor was very skeptical after he heard the women he I swear to God Steve he was almost crying he was so moved and he said godamn it let’s indict this [ _ ] you know he was the passion and I said wow there you know this really really serious and then the the stupid the stupid officer uh he was doing some uh Court uh courtroom security uh stuff as well and there was a former Miss Texas who was also a uh uh security officer um and she was gorgeous and he was so stupid you know she was sitting she sitting in a chair two chairs she’s sitting in one chair and her leg is up on the other chair you know like just extending her leg to rest her leg on the other chair opposite her he sees this Steve and he he jumps on her leg and he starts rubbing his crotch against her and she goes [ _ ] what the [ _ ] what the hell you you know angry as hell and he’s like oh I’m just kidding I’m just kidding and uh you know so she was so angry she so she came to us and she said did you know what he did to me and and the prosecutor says all right add another charge that’s another charge right there you know so so now he had five now you had five women and uh you know it was interesting Steve uh when we did the uh uh when we did the search War you know we arrested him oh my God and which which so we got the San Antonio police to work with us to you know to to affect the arrest um it’s always it’s always dangerous when you’re deal arresting a cop or someone in law enforcement exactly exactly so you know we had we checked out he had a garage we made sure we you know we had some Intel so we knew he had one weapon uh but you’re right you’re absolutely right and that’s why I wanted the uh Lo local police with us as well because boy they you know they’re good at that type of stuff and I know that so um and they were they were tremendous they would they were tremendous so we we arrest them and then uh we’re doing the search and all of you know we find all these toe sucking magazines all over the place oh my gosh you know and and there’s there’s the black robe that he was talking about the judge’s robe oh he had a robe and everything yes the whole thing so wow I felt actually I felt better you know finding that yeah you know it just just made made sense um and you know of course uh uh we had all we had all the goods on them but you know these types they always I’m innocent I’m innocent so we’re going to take this to trial so you know it went to trial and it was over very quickly and oddly enough his his attorney uh didn’t dispute the facts at all uh he was uh he was trying to have the case thrown out on a technic it that you know you know the language of the uh sexual abuse language you know the code that that this holding cell didn’t constitute a US prison per se you know so he wanted that it was very clever actually it very clever yeah and that was his that was his whole argument um but you know it you know the judge the judge threw it out then there was an appeal and they threw it out as well because it did actually uh uh it did actually correspond to the language in the code uh so yeah he he went down I think they they deliberated just a few hours and uh guilty and uh he went away for about 60 months um yeah so that was pretty interesting a really weird weird case yeah that is super weird um that’s one of those ones when you’re when you’re uncovering it you must be like this isn’t this can’t be this he’s not actually doing this this is like these girls are like you know they’ve created this story because they hate this guy for some reason and you’re like wow I mean that’s yeah I would say surprised I’m surprised he didn’t put him away for longer because that’s really when you you know when you um when you uh commit a crime like that against public trust like because you’re you’re you really have people’s lives in your hands um I’m I’m surprised they didn’t put them away for longer especially federally yeah no I I agree with you there uh but you know what was interesting they uh you know he opened it up to to a kind of character references and so the the uh one of the uh one of his supervisors actually came out to to uh give witness to his Sterling background his long career with the US Marshall service the fact that nothing like this had ever happened before under his watch blah blah blah so when when they did that uh that kind of opened it up to uh to U you know other other evidence and so that you we introduced the uh toe sucker magazines at that point point and the judge his name was Sam Sparks and he was a real Texas judge and he says my God he’s waving this thing in front I have never seen anything perverted perverted in my life and this magazine and when he said that that was I knew it was over for this for this guy and it was kind of it was kind of sad because the uh the defendant uh his I think his uncle was a uh a bishop in the uh Catholic church and he would show up to the courtroom you know uh for for several days he was up front you know in his Bishop vestments yes yes you know just and I I said how sad you know you did that your uncle is a holy person and yeah you’re you’re you’re acting like that it was a very weird case strange case I mean correct me if I’m wrong but if you’re if if you’re if he’s going over the line like that with with social norms and he’s so boldly I mean a person like that capable of anything yes and you just wonder Steve uh you know how were there other women before these women you know right there must there must there must have been you know he must have gotten away with stuff I’m I’m just I’m assuming uh he did but um yeah it was a just a bizarre bizarre case yeah that that is truly bizarre great one um Ken can you tell us about uh the most intense thing most intense investigation you got involved in yeah I mean uh there there was one we had uh This was um a case involving um The Joint terrorism task force back in the back in the FBI and uh I remember we we we got a call and it I think it came from our uh Washington DC office and they said uh there’s someone in your neighborhood up there in Newark that has just offered their services to the uh Iraqis to assassinate the president uh in and he’s in your he’s up in your neck of the woods and so uh this this really got us going because it was uh just during the uh First Gulf War I think it was in 1990 and so you know we but but here’s the beauty here’s the beauty of the terrorism task force so we have uh we had someone on the Secret Service in our in our Squad which was very helpful because this was a threat against the president so uh so he’s there we had uh several New Jersey State Troopers that were a part of our group uh as well and then someone from the immigration Naturalization Service at you know I think it’s Homeland Security now they call it but back then it was ins so plus plus these FBI agents so uh this you know they they we wanted to uh get right on top of this right away I mean this was really serious stuff and so so uh we found out that uh you know we traced the caller and traced him back to a u a grocery store in I think Rutherford New Jersey and so we had some um uh you know some surveillance units watching this guy and you know we started to peel back the onion and uh but but they wanted you know right and and I offered my services to the uh to the acting supervisor and I said look um you know I’ve got a background you know Middle East this is a Middle East guy appears to be uh maybe Palestinian um and and you know I let me go in there kind of like limited undercover let me just Mosey around in there uh my cover will be I’m a graduate student doing a work on you know Middle East studies something crazy like that and and they said okay all right you know we’ll you know we’ll have some squads out there just in case but you go in there make contact try to make contact with this guy and try to find out what you can about him uh so that’s what I did you know I kind of dressed down I even took you know some books under my you know some crazy books on right and and and I and I went in there and um you know of course I’m I’m looking around his his grocery store and there there was some Middle East people in there and then I realized u u that now I was talking to him I just hey how you doing and you know ah you’re from the Middle East hey yes and he was he just warmed up he became the most he became my buddy you know and so we’re going back and forth and I’m looking around to see you know if he has any uh dart boards with George Bush’s face on it anything obvious yeah obvious right but there was nothing like that nothing like that at all but we did I did you know find get these little nuggets of information from him uh yes he he was born in Kuwait he was a Palestinian uh he was actually had been in the US Army uh down at Ford Benning so you know he had a military background so now yes maybe he did have the capability to carry through with these threats so uh you know we just kind of I I just found more and more information got his full name the whole the whole deal so that was um you know that that was probably uh the most interesting and and and and intense thing that we had going on for a while um and then uh you know after that and we became kind of friends and and he said oh Mr Mr Richard my name was I Mr Richard right uh Mr Richard I would like to see you again and I’m like oh Mr Jamal Mr Jamal me too alhamdulillah you know and he’s all excited with speaking Arabic and and the whole thing uh so I I I I felt good I’d come out of there with information and so I could go back to the terrorism task force I made one mistake one one kind of big mistake you know as as he says please write down your name right how can I get in touch with you you know so I I write down you know this uh fake name Richard whatever and then uh Stupid me I I wrote down my home phone number down there so so I go back to the squad I gotta be honest with the squad they said oh that’s great you got this okay we’re GNA flesh him out and and now you know now we know who he is and he poses he could pose a danger and you know yada y y and then I said guys I I think I kind of screwed this up a little bit I uh I gave them my home phone number oh oh my God you’d think I’d I’d killed somebody myself the the acting supervisor tore me tore me a new one I mean he tore me a new one uh in the end he you know he said look you you’re kind of new here all right you did some good stuff but you can’t do that stuff again and maybe maybe that’s on me too we should have given you more of a kind of a backstory instead of making it up as you go along so uh he said well we’re going to get rid of your that number you’re going to get a new phone number and so he he he helped me with the telephone company and uh anyway if Mr Jamal tried to call me he didn’t get through that’s that’s for sure but but but once once we had done that and we had ided then the bureau the bureau threw everything in the kitchen sink on this guy uh and for the next six months they watched him like a hawk uh you know I we ended up uh and it’s in my book there’s a chapter called Crow Crow’s Nest where they they had an apartment just a uh just a across the street from the guy from his home and uh off to the side and then they would rotate FBI agents into this apartment 247 to keep eyes on him at all you know and then they’d have the units at his store and uh and then finally they got a a real real undercover guy who uh had done some incredible work um in in his career uh with Russian spies Arabic Arab terrorists you name it uh and so they brought him into the picture and I knew once he got in there with this guy it was it was lights out for this for this airat terrorist forget it and because this UC was he was one of the best one of the best and and so it was uh the end for that guy for for sure but but they uh they ended up arresting him and uh you know he did some time in a federal prison but he didn’t actually you know these posts of having people that he could coordinate with and and he was he also threatened some other lives some congressmen Senator and uh he he also told the Iraqis look I can also blow up some uh US Army installations you know obviously he was former Army so so that was part of the the threat but then they realized he was just it was all [ __ ] he was act he would have been acting alone there were no other people that he could really work with so they decided to to arrest him and and and finish with it yeah imagine that imagine boasting to some operatives from a foreign country like Iraq that you could do all this stuff with like no real way of doing it like what are you thinking no I mean uh I think a lot of it was emotional uh when we when I talked to him uh I’m glad you brought that up because when I talked to him initially uh we were talking about uh you know Kuwait and uh um Iraq and the United States and and he told me he said he was um Angry a little angry that the that the United States um you know and Kuwait were were buddies and that you know maybe Saddam Hussein had a point of invading Kuwait because uh the kuwaitis are are rich they’re they’re lazy they’re bad people and he told me this so I you know I started to I realized that it was probably more emotional on his part than what he could you know obviously uh uh you know killing the president maybe maybe he didn’t mean it I don’t know but but just can’t take that chance it’s so so much easier when you work when you’re living in like a dictatorship you know they just would have ripped that guy in five minutes and throw in but in the US I mean obviously it’s a beautiful thing in the US you got to put Manpower on it and like see if this is real um and you know what is the good question for you Kim what is the lipus test for threatening the president because I I I have heard like of like friends of friends people who are friends with like kind of kooky people who put stuff out there they’ve gotten a wrap on their door before from gmen and it’s usually like a quick like they sit down in your house you tell them they look and they go don’t do that anymore type of thing I think they they have a picture of the person they’ve already done their research but they get a visit and the visit I mean for for a normal person a visit from law enforcement is enough where you’re like all right maybe I should you know cuz if if you start saying things that sound like you have the resource es or sound like could be credible there there is a real possibility that the special agent will come to your house yes uh Steve I’ve heard that as well and I mean they’re there maybe to kind of also assess the situation kind of while you’re there you’re looking around Ju Just Looking for little uh uh EV you know evidence or hints that maybe this is more maybe this person can carry out what he says he wants to do but yeah I have heard of that of the Secret Service uh knocking on doors and saying hey you know we know what you’re doing knock it off uh right you know we’re watching you we’re watching you that that type of thing we know what you’re doing in your mom’s basement on the internet with your friends yeah yeah exactly yeah exactly I mean that’s what I’ve heard that’s what I’ve you know I’ve read I’ve been told by by other feds and by Secret Service people yeah so that’s a federal um I’m I’m kind of Na to it the threatening to kill the president um obviously like for like for instance in Massachusetts threatening to commit a crime um you have to like there has to be for the um elements of it we you have to be able to or at least Express in detail or there you have to be able to do it like so if you’re call if you’re prank calling people in California from Massachusetts and saying I’m I’m going I’m going to kill you whatever it’s like well what are the means do you have a car did you buy plane tickets like could right could you get it done or are you just talking trash and then the charge would fall apart but I’m sure it’s much different for the president because it it enacts all these you know people have to bird dog that they have to like really see because of we’ve had presidents that have been shot and killed um so what is the what is the um bar for that for like actually getting convicted of threatening to kill the president yeah uh I’m you know I’m going to I’m going to take the fifth on that Steve I I just don’t know what you just have to look into it yeah I’d have to turn to my former uh Secret Service guy and and ask ask him gotcha but but look I I know they take it very seriously I have worked for former Secret Service uh agents um my boss in in in El Paso was on the Lynden Baines Johnson uh detail so oh wow um you know they’re very serious about that that stuff and they don’t kid around and they do make visits I do remember that but I I really don’t know you know what the bar is what the the uh particular elements are right gotcha yeah I know they I know they keep it um they keep it they probably don’t I me you never hear anybody really talk about that and they probably don’t necessarily want I’m sure you can look up the US code for whatever it is um but I know they give them for some you for some federal laws they give a a pretty wide birth for charging somebody just so they can you know get it investigation going get them in front of a get a mared you know and see really cuz I mean it’s not something you really want to have to um investigate for a long time before you make a move I guess that’s what I’m saying because right the severity of the threat um yeah very it’s fascinating to me though I used to work in where I used to work on Cape Cod there we had and I’ve talked about this before in the show but we had um National Park Rangers Federal officers who did the national sea shore and they had like a what they do while you were driving through like a federally owned Road was like so much different than what we could do for the state of Massachusetts like and we would also swear them in as specials so that when they left they would still have there’d be no question to their Authority on the highways state roads around and town roads around the national park but I know they would pull somebody over on a Federal Road order them out of the car and they could look in the car but when they went on Route Six in Massachusetts we would always tell them hey you gota you wearing a different hat don’t you can’t just pull a car over on the highway and order them out here because you’re right you’re under the authority of the state now not of the Fed so okay that stuff always um always fasinated me the different layers and the different the complexities of the you know it’s easy to complain about which I do often about like the different jurisdictional stuff but at the same time kind of like how they created this government like they yeah they kind of created Congress to be kind of a so nobody could push anything through easily you know what I mean so everything gridlocks cuz when things gridlock then your freedoms are protected you know until they figure it out but um I’m going off in a tangent here Ken sorry um it’s okay so uh I hear you I hear no I hear you yeah that makes a lot of sense and that’s you’re right that’s the way it is so Ken can you tell us uh do you have a a positive or heartwarming story from your years um working as a special agent um Steve you know again working that case out of San Antonio um you know just the um the fact that the these ladies had gone through a lot of um uh you know they were terrorized actually and they had undergone some physical abuse and mental abuse and all that but you know about a about a year later um I got a um a card from one of the um uh one of these uh one of the victims and uh it was very nice and and and she um and I just happen to have the card with me um and she yeah and so she said um she said this um I just wanted to tell you thank you for all that you did uh both yourself and Ivonne uh Ivonne was my partner she was with the U uh Internal Affairs Marshall service so she was kind of my co-case agent and and she you know thank God she was my coase agent because uh being a part of the marshals she knew the uh she knew the people in the marshals she knew the the culture uh so that was invaluable to me as I as I did my work and she eventually went on to become the US Marshall in Boston by the way oh wow very cool yeah so she uh said Thank you and Ivonne you were such a strength uh to me um and your guidance your guidance helped me to feel secure uh not only did you fight to write or wrong but you were sincerely a friend and for that I’ll always be grateful thank you for providing me with some closure in my life so beautiful you know yeah that’s just something that kind of uh stands out to me um and then uh when I was with the FBI uh in Newark uh we uh I did you know I had some relationship with Social Security uh the office was just down the street from us so so whenever I needed some information about the people I was investigating I could go over to Social Security they would help me out and I walked over there one day and um in and and you you know it was a big big a big uh a big place and uh there was a commotion a huge commotion going on I walk what the hell is this people are screaming yelling and then right right in the middle of the the office is this lady uh who is just crying and babbling and she just had this nuclear meltdown uh you know she didn’t get what she wanted and maybe she was slightly autistic and she was just creating a huge scene and the uh manager came out was a woman and she looked at me and like Ken help help here you know yeah uh and so I I just calmly kind of walked over to this this woman and I said uh honey um I’m listening to you I’m listening I I can hear you talk to me what is it you know and she just calmed down and I I said let’s do this outside let’s let’s walk outside and and you tell me what you know what’s on your mind and we we both kind of went out outside and what whatever happened I forget but um after that I I got this uh call from my boss um like that weekend and he said hey uh just to remind you uh uh Social Security called me and they they they just wanted to thank our office and you did a nice job kind of calming this woman down and uh nice job strange you know that’s these these little things and yeah uh and then uh then the lady in the Social Security the manager calls me up and says would you come on over like this the next week and I said yeah what what’s going on she goes just come over and when I got there they had a little party for me you know they just little C cake and some coffee and thank you so much for helping us out oh that’s great you know just a you know it was a real it was a nothing Burger but it just you know sometimes you know you work with partners and uh you never know what’s going to happen out there and you just try to you know do your best yeah absolutely and it’s it’s a testament to like how the mindset for a law enforcement or officer or a special agent is what you’re exposed to is the stakes are so much different than like people who work in an office or you know what I mean like you’re to you that was like a nothing but to those people they probably talked about it like went home and talked talked about it all week you know like um maybe that thing that happened you know it’s just yeah yeah I just felt so bad for the woman because you know she’s just melting down and you just feel sorry for someone like that and they just they just they just I think at that point they needed a little safe space and just some calm let’s let’s be calm I’m and I am I’m listening to you right you know I I care about you you know and then they they kind of stop so that was pretty cool but you know there’s one one little uh story I I don’t know if this is heartwarming or maybe patriotic but uh you know we were doing uh uh working with assets uh these are informants confidential sources which are very important part of our work and uh this was kind of in the uh leading up to the first Gulf War in 1990 and uh we were working with the military in in New Jersey and you know if we found people we you know pass on the information uh to the military and uh military sent us a tape this was just at the tail end of the Gulf War maybe after the Gulf War you know it was a very short war right uh and and they sent a video and uh one of the officers said check out the video you’re going to be you know pay attention to this video and you know I’m watching this video and it’s of uh you know air strikes and this and that all the all the fun stuff and and they put it to music like rock the casba they put it to this music all these Jets and you know boom bom you know columns disintegrating smoke you know that whole uh stuff and and then all of a sudden I see uh this bomb being put on this Jet and it says uh to Saddam jtf Newark office you know something like that oh my God yeah that’s cool that was pretty I thought that was funny oh hell yeah um Ken great uh uh great hardwork stories loved them especially the last one there I think that’s heartwarming for sure the bomb baby um so popular question here on the show is um advice to people uh who are on the fence about getting law enforcement or maybe they’re going in they’re in backgrounds um I think you’d be a great one to give some advice especially getting into it later in your life what would you tell the the person getting into it now uh Steve I I have in my book uh there’s a bonus a bonus section in the epilog and it’s actually advice that I give to um um uh young men and women that are considering a career in law enforcement not necessarily the feds but law enforcement in general sure and I I tell them um I I always start off by saying listen because listening is is really an underrated type skill and I’ve always found that uh those people that listen you know instead of talking right away they listen are probably going to do better in the job than those that are just constantly talking um and so I you I tell them look I have this 80 8020 rule where when I’m talking either to uh Witnesses or informants or whatever I’m going to listen 80% of the time and I’m not going to talk any more than 20% of the time so uh you know I can’t stress enough that that that people in the you know the the better agents the better Law Enforcement Officers I’ve seen are the ones that that really listen um you know the other thing I’d say is um if if they could read if they could purchase and read this book uh by Dale Carnegie how to um I think it’s called How to Win Friends and Influence People oh yeah yep it’s just so common sensical but uh you read that and you know you can make a friend with anyone in the world anybody you you know from somewh from Somalia Kuwait Ireland us from all walks of life you know so I I would say in invest the time it’s in the library you don’t have to pay for it you can pick it up in the library and I’ve always gone back to that book just to kind of refresh you know what I should be doing with people how I should be interacting with them and I think it’s a gem it’s just an absolute Gem of a book uh the other thing I’d say is find a mentor or Rabbi uh find someone that you trust that uh you know knows the agency knows the um you know the uh police department well knows the INS INS and out and a person that that actually cares cares about you uh who who has your interest in mind uh I I’d say find someone like that listen to them you know open up to them uh tell them what you want and kind of they they kind of know how to navigate their way through the system um I would seek a life work balance you know I’ve seen people that just work work work work work and and you know you can get burned out that way you need a balance you need to kind of reset to refresh absolutely uh and and you know you don’t have to have your friends don’t have to be other cops or other feds you can have a diversity of friends you can have a um you know exercise also get sleep all of those things are important uh relationships are important as well have a a group of friends um um have a spiritual component to your life not necessarily church or synagogue or the mosque but um you know something spiritual where you can uh you know just kind of um get involved in in that and then you know if you feel out of sorts because you know this job can uh be very stressful um Talk to people talk to your spouse talk to your significant other talk to a close friend and don’t be afraid to to seek help uh because because because that that’s that’s not a sign of weakness and it may have in the past been interpreted that way maybe a stigma which I think is wrong but but now you there’s no excuse uh get help there there’s wonderful therapists out there there sometimes there’s a little bit just a little bit of medicine a spoonful of you know to take the uh medicine right uh but but just you know it it’s not a sign of of weakness it’s a sign of strength to to to to seek help and to say why why am I not feeling 100% why why do I have a the a cloud over my head anything like that so th those I mean that’s some of the advice I could I have given young people absolutely love it words of wisdom uh Ken tell us about the book yeah no thanks thanks Steve uh so this book is uh a labor of love um of course uh I am the cop’s son uh you know you’ve heard about my dad and he was such an inspiration for me and actually our our careers kind of intersected for about two years so there’s some interesting uh stories oh really that’s interesting yeah I have a Steve I have a chapter on my dad on his career and then how we kind of came together and intersected in New York for for per two years um I’ll be honest with you uh one of one of the reviewers uh says the diversity of cases here is mindblowing and uh I’m not one to beat my chest but uh uh you have such a diversity of cases here um you you know you got to remember I I work with three uh distinct and distinguished federal agencies uh and with different disciplines uh overseas and in the United States so you’re going to get a a sense of all kinds of things from sexual abuse to fraud to intelligence matters spies cartels you name it it’s it’s in this book I I think uh I think readers are going to have a have a wonderful time and again that bonus section to to men and women that are contemplating a career in law enforcement um and I’ve heard from the uh cia’s Inspector General called me and said uh this should be required reading for anybody that’s in law enforcement today or is considering going into it so that that was nice that was nice to hear from the from the CIA that was pretty nice absolutely that’s very cool it looks fascinating and like as you can tell from the interview with me it’s like I’m a cop and I’ve been a cop for in law enforcement for years now but I I I don’t know a lot about the the federal side of things and I I just think it’s fascinating to to hear about so I’m sure this book is is fantastic and people can get it what’s the best place to purchase it yeah so it’s on uh it’s on Amazon and um Barnes & Noble and by the way it’s uh it’s been a uh top seller best seller in in Amazon for the was just published about five months ago wow good for you Fant you got another one in the works or what uh yes I do uh I have a a book but it’s about half completed uh it’s called land of sand um you know I had I had a life Once Upon a Time in the Middle East uh I lived there I I uh taught English there for about five years so oh wow yeah the book’s called land of sand and I think it’ll come out uh in early 2025 very cool Ken awesome man hey I I really appreciate you taking the time to come on guys you can get Ken’s book I’ll put the link in the show notes to his website and to where you can purchase the book um but yeah man fascinating talk and uh you know if you if you’re up for it I’d love to have you back on down the road maybe talk about some of the Middle East stuff some of the cartel stuff things like that Steve I’d love to nothing more uh than coming back and chatting with you fantastic thank you sir it was honor I’m going to U do the outro real quick can you hang on for just like three minutes absolutely and thank you again Steve all right brother thank you ladies and gentlemen the great Kenneth strange Jr um I just thought that was fascinating here uh hearing Ken talk all about Federal staff and investigations and uh how they do things so thank you to him this is a time in the show where we’re going to go ahead and thank the patreon sergeants Sergeant level patreons I love you who I’m talking about is a great Andy bigs the Big Andy bigs Greg Gad booy the great Adam mihal 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I uh I love you I’m in love with you and I appreciate you so guys um that’s it for this week and I will see you next time oh also before you go if you know anybody wants to be a guest if you want to be a guest yourself thanks.com or Steve at than lea.com I must Feed the Beast I must continue the interviews please reach out and contact me okay that’s it I’ll see you guys next