Joe Kenda Homicide Hunter Returns

Transcript

this is things police see firstand accounts with your host Steve gold welcome to the podcast that interviews active and retired police officers about their most intense bizarre and sometimes humorous moments on the job I am old Ginger face your host for the show thank you for joining us thank you for being with us thank you for all the recent subscribers and um binge listeners I really appreciate that just so you know I’ll tell you up front um the uh the patreon has a new thing to it so if you really love the show really want to support it I do a live twice a month and that live stream is replayed in podcast form commercial free and uh YouTube on the patreon so it’s just an extra bonus um but that’s only if you really love the show the show will of course remain free to everybody the point is to get it out to as many people as possible so you can so people can hear and appreciate what the men and women of law enforcement actually have to deal with on a daily basis I’m very excited about today’s guest um didn’t expect that he’d want to return it’s kind of a a fun story I’ll share with you after I bring him on um he is none other than the homicide Hunter the host of American detective he’s written he’s the author of several books retired lieutenant of detectives in Colorado Springs Colorado the great Joe Kenda sir how are you it’s you it’s me yes his said he yes thank you so much for coming back on and um I wanted to share with the people the it was like we were saying beforehand I get a lot of I get a lot of advice from you know people and well-meaning people about hey you could really get more um downloads and more this and more that from the show if you just made these short videos which is like this whole thing I don’t want embark on but I did and I made a bunch of them so I went through the back catalog and you know there’s almost 200 interviews and then I saw Joe Kenda I said don’t be an idiot this guy’s you know on TV make a short with him in it and I did it and that was the one two the two that popped off like I think one has um 650,000 views and one has uh 200 or quarter million in climbing and um so I I I saw it happening and I’ve never had a video do that so I was like oh my gosh this is great and then I was like well it’s not that beneficial for me because it’s mostly just people who love Joe Kenda I nobody’s really caring that I made this podcast but anyways I was excited so I said you know what let me write Joe an email and just let them know there’s a lot of love out there for you like because I’m like we were saying before the show it it just in a climate of like um anti- police stuff like almost exclusively positive comments about you I mean I mean people love that show they love American detective and um they just I mean the comments were coming I was checking my phone it must be what a celebrity is like when they post something every time I check my phone there’s like 130 new comments yeah I check it every half an hour too because I was like addicted to seeing it go up you know and they’re all all love for you man well it’s very nice it’s h shocking you know it’s interesting if you’d have walked up to me over years ago when I was standing in the street in a bad neighborhood waiting for the Corner’s van to come and collect my Victim and I was watching the sun come up if you walked up to me and said Kenda someday you’re going to be in New York Times best signing auditor you’re going to be on television all over the world for 14 years and you’re going to have millions of fans I would have looked at you and accused you of being on weapons grade narcotics but here we are yeah which living I’m living proof that even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while it’s crazy isn’t it the way life can go I mean it’s it’s so cool and um you know it’s just done a lot for the image of police too I mean get getting that love out there well it’s an honest approach to the problem criminal investigation is not car chases gun battles and girls wearing clothes that came out of a spray can and carrying a gun that’s bigger than their they the reality of of criminal investigation is one foot in front of the other what happened here and how are we going to find out what that is and who is going to be responsible we have no idea you have a shadow in the night who kills and you need to provide him with a first middle last name and a date of birth and that is a euphoric moment when that happens yeah absolutely it’s true I mean you did it on a giant scale but even just being um a ER on my level when you I’ve had some cases with people that weren’t were kind of known for not being our biggest fan but working with them personally they get to know you and they get they get to see you advocate for them and then hopefully you get that you identify that suspect and you you get resolution now all of a sudden they’re like your biggest fan they’re at Town meetings saying hey we should get another cop like it it’s it really is transformative but you the way you got to do it was on a mass scale which is beautiful it turned out well uh I was uh I never looked at my work as as a job I considered it a mission you kill one of my taxpayers I’d take it personally and I’m going to find you no matter what it takes or how much effort is involved of the 387 homicides I was responsible for I clear 356 by arrest and conviction this leaves 31 unsold for very various reasons but now we’re down to 28 because three of those have been resolved by advances in DNA technology so my rate of solution is 93% the natural rate of solution runs between 50 and 60% but I never looked at it as work I looked at it as it’s what I do it’s who I am if someone does something unspeakable to someone you have two choices you can remain seated or you can stand up I always stood up and I’m proud of that absolutely you should be for sure now when you were when you were very young when you’re looking at what you’re going to do for a career was it always law enforcement for you or was there like another path you could have taken it wasn’t law enforcement to begin with what it was was government work and I became completely disillusioned by it when I investigated it I’m a black and white person I see things clearly as right or wrong that’s black and white the government is unfortunately 243 Shades of Gray absolutely what’s good for us today who do we have to kill to improve our position that sort of behavior I found to be distasteful so I said no that’s not going to be for me I took the foreign service exam when I got out of college and and uh I amazingly passed it and then they offered me a position but they said you’ll have to go to the Republic of shed in central Africa and they don’t like this here very much and so there’s 200 Marines at the embassy you can’t take your wife it’s a high-risk assignment you’re going to be there for two years yikes so you sat back and you say okay so I’m not going to be the charge of fair at the Paris Embassy Oh no you’re going to sh without your wife uh that’s not our problem it’s your problem no I’m afraid it’s your problem as well I quit and that was the end of my government career which lasted about an hour and a half then I decided what can I do that I can personally do and rise or fall on my own ability my uncle was a Colorado highway patrolman who I admired greatly in fact I named my son after him my uncle’s name was Dan Y and my son is Daniel Joseph and uh I thought you know there’s something and then I got to there and I went to the police academy I got hired by the col Springs Police Department and I considered what is the worst crime well it must be murder because we’ll do the worst to you if you commit it right at that time would put you in prison forever or we would kill you Colorado has since eliminated the death penalty but they still have life for that so I thought well if that’s it that’s what I want to do and I focus my career in such a manner as to guarantee at least a review of my ability to see if I would fit into the homicide un and some of the young I was one of the few guys on the police department who was a college graduate so the old heads on the PD most of them Korean War veteran guys you know those kind of guys a high school diploma they called me college boy and they harassed me constantly so you think you’re smarter than us and of course I loved it so I said well actually I am smarter than you that’s the whole and I made enemies out of everybody and I didn’t care so I had an opportunity I was a they put me in investigations as a burglary detective which I considered to be Trivial Pursuit When people’s property is stolen it’s replaced by an insurance company not exactly exciting but I thought maybe this is a foothold so we’ll see they have a double shooting in a convenience store stranger kills strangers always ugly and they called all hands on deck for neighborhood canvas in a commercial area lots of apartment windows and so on so I show up at there at that scene and the the old homicide guys that are there are complaining to their Sergeant about how difficult this is going to be and boy I don’t know if we can go anywhere and I walked up to that sergeant and I decided to lay it on the line I said I’ll take it and so one of the guys said yeah give it to the college boy he’ll solve it before recess and everybody left the sergeant looked at me and he said well I’ll tell you what I’ll check with your sergeant if he thinks it’s okay we’ll give you a shot 5 days later I arrested that guy nice and uh when I was old guys God bless them ta me on the shoulder say not bad for a college boy and and I never left that’s awesome yeah you took a chance put it out there because if you hadn’t solved it or if it hadn’t worked out then you would have been like I’d still be looking for your television to set you know do but it did work out and uh I found something I was good at and I found something that I can work and come to a conclusion and I never stopped I I I’m not smarter than anybody else I’m just more determined I worked one case for nine years before I turned it and I tagged two guys for first degree murder and they’re going to die in prison they killed a guy that nobody cared about nobody would me but I did and we I finally got it first case ever prosecuted in Colorado on DNA evidence in 1991 that was brand new technology at the time now it’s processed to the point where it’s incredible what they can do but then it was a new thing and no one was really sure what it would do but I told the management I said it’s what we must do it shows so much promise how could we not do this because it was outrageously expensive at the time and police departments are always hurting money oh yeah so they weren’t anxious to get involved in something where each test was thousands of dollars with maybe no result and I argued I said well I watch the news tonight I’ll be on there talking about you being too cheap to concern yourself with Somebody’s Daughter that’s been murdered and see oh that goes over fell so all right all right so we did that and it turned to co yeah that it is a major um major corner to turn we now like on the mdts we have if you if you’re just running plates and you get a warrant there’ll be a little message DNA uh required by the state so now it’s just like it’s right in the system if you arrest something a warrant oh the state wants you collect DNA they just take it all they do it establishes a file of rule Breakers you know somebody asked me one time how do you deal with all these people I said it’s not all these people 98% of the world is just fine they work they go home they kiss their wife they pet the dog they talk to the kids they have dinner watch a little TV and go to bed and next day they do it again 2% of the people don’t do that because they’re special and the rules don’t apply to them put a sign up in front of your driveway that says no parking 98% of the people won’t park there because there’s a sign that says not to 2% will park there because the rules don’t apply to them you spend 100% of your time with the 2% you can become jst about human nature I have never lost my interest or my belief in humans only in some of them yeah hear people say you’ll hear this all the time people say well there good in everybody I disagree with that statement completely not everybody absolutely yeah I I I interviewed a friend of mine who was retired um homicide detective in lepd and he said the same thing he said uh you know it’s I I worked a long career in homicide and I came a lot of neighborhoods and talked to a lot of people and East LA South La mostly good people he goes they invite you in a AUA will give you a bowl of pole or whatever and you know you’re talking with good people that they want the cops too and they just want to live in peace it’s that small percentage that people like you and my buddy Dave are embroiled with that you you get the privilege of dealing with all the time that can really sour you so it’s great you never lost your your love Humanity one of the things I did is I avoided um making friends on the police department nobody knew if I was married if I had kids all they knew was I was the boss and when even when I was a sergeant and homicide everybody deferred to me they every head would turn and look at me so well what are we going to do now Joe guys who were captains Deputy Chiefs even the chiefs of police on occasion asking me for advice it’s crazy I said we’re going to do this this and this and we’re going to do it right now and that’s what we would do and you’re in a situation like that you’re able to extend yourself into a problem case and get some cooperation from everybody that’s potentially involved in it as witnesses as relatives other policemen whatever to try to get a resolution and it’s right now it’s not tomorrow it’s now if you wanted to come into homicide after I became in charge of it you had to interview with me and there’s some other things we had to do as well I’m going to give you uh an hour to write a search Mark with a series of facts on one page of a report write an affidavit I don’t care if you write it in cron just so so I can read it and tell me how we’re going to get in that house based on probable cause you find in that one page if you can do that and do it well then you’re a guy I’m interested in but at the end of all that I would say to them always the same thing we’re not just the police we’re the murder police when C busted a c en able do you think God send a uniform to take that report no he sent a detective that’s who we are now don’t ever tell me you’re tired don’t ever tell you you’re hungry don’t ever tell me you have to go home and see your wife if I thought you needed a wife I would issue you one you’re here to do this now if you don’t like that tell me now and we’ll park friends go ride a motorcycle go be a Narcotics agent go back to patrol whatever you’re happy with please go and do it but if you come here I’m going to work you like a dop but I’ll be right there with yep difference between a boss and a leader the guys that tell you the truth I don’t think it’s for me fine thank you for coming in I wish you luck in your career or a guy would come in and say yeah I want to do that and you’re on my man I hired a kid in Patrol out of Patrol because I thought it was really smart had good instincts good gut instincts about the street kept himself informed about who the 2% were what gangs were active in his area of Patrol concern and so on and so on so I encouraged him to apply some want to give him a shot he did and he was all for it he comes to work the first day it’s 8:00 in the morning he looks like a banker he’s wearing a three-piece suit I said Derek you look terrific he said ‘ thank you sir I said come out of my office I want you in my office because I have a window you have a cubicle but come on to see because I want to show you something so he comes in and I said you see that column of smoke rising down there in the South part of the city black smoke means a petroleum based product that’s a house fire wood burns white so that house fire down there is not a fire it’s a concealment fire fire department has found a woman in there I shot twice in the face with a large caliber handgun and it’s your case and he looked at me he said well this is my first day I said you’re right Derek you go from being a new guy to an old guy around here in about 15 minutes I think you can swim and I’m going to throw you in the deep end of the pool and find out now I’m going to come with you and I won’t say a word unless you’re doing something hopelessly illegal and we’re going to go there and we’re going to see how this goes he was so nervous he couldn’t put the key in the door lock his un mar car you know and I said here here let me give you a hand and I opened the car for him we got there and he did the first thing he did is exactly what I knew he would do he put his hands in his pockets and he kept his mouth shut and I like that so about six days after the event he has an arrest I said you’ve done a fine job of it a fine job and he’s one of the best guys I ever had as he loved it he did it because he wanted to not because he was employed to do it that’s the difference yeah I love that story that’s great it’s great they gave you so much control over the unit too you could handpick interview do the whole thing oh well I had something going for me I had success yeah and so everybody left me alone they did you know if you go to crime scenes before we got a new chief of police a retired two star from La smart guy he comes there and uh he was only there for about a week and we had a terrible case where five people were shot to death or six was wounded in uh fire set far the buildings like a terrorist rap uh two sisters are murdered uh terrible deal I’m working this case 24 hours a day for like three days I’m dictating a warrant for the shooter to my secretary at like at midnight and I’m going to get a SWAT team we’re going to go get this rat and the chief walks in turns the chair around and leans on the chair and stares at me now I knew who he was but I never met him I said what is this all about so finally I I did my deal dictated the Affidavit of the typist and uh I said okay that’s enough put a s line I’m going to take it to a Jud and then he speaks the chief and he says why are you going to go see a Jud because I’m going to get him to sign this warrant for five counts of first de grade murder that’s go what makes you think he’ll sign it he’ll sign it and I’m mad now so off we go we get a signature and uh we head for this guy’s apartment we already removed all the neighbors dryw done stop bullets and we thought he would probably shoot if we made entry so I called him on the phone told him who we were and what we there for you’re surrounded There’s No Escape and and uh he shot himself on the phone which is really loud on a phone as it turns out wow but he put his top of his head in the sink you know so fine goodbye said taxpayers a lot of money I come out of that place and this guy’s running down the sidewalk the chief and I think what’s he going to do now punch me around me and he says that’s the finest piece of police work I’ve ever seen he’s he like you got a twin brother that sits in a chair backwards and it was just down of the office a little while ago it was so odd just odd the next day I go to my office my secretary comes in says the chief secretary just called he wants you at the staff meeting right now now I’m a sergeant at that time I’d never been at a staff meeting it’s the Command Staff you know I don’t go to those things I don’t get invited so I thought uhoh I guess I’m going to get canned so I go over there and he sees me in the door he says ker come here and stand next to me come here I come I stand next to him he points around the room he said does everybody know who this is well and what does he do well he runs homicide exactly he runs it nobody in this room does except him when I ask you if you understand me I want you to nod your [ _ ] head now do you understand me everybody nods their head and after that moment there was Crickets at a crime scene nobody would show up no Deputy chiefs no Captain standing on on the gun or kicking the blood or whatever nobody they were gone they also impersonated Herbert LOM in the Pink Panther remember when he somebody would say inspector cluzo had one eye would start to Blink yeah like he hates him so bad did you say clo you know so that was me Kenda did you say Kenda you know but they didn’t come near me they were afraid of me all right afraid of the fact that the chief loved me and he’d call me on a car phone every time it had homicide and and say Joey I need this one Joey course he needs all of them I we’re on it Chief because he knows murder scares people yeah yeah it does they all believe they’re be a victim and so and he knew that so he he was always but it was always he never told you who he was you’re supposed to know who he is you know it was uh really interesting but uh so as a result of all that I kind of did what I wanted and nobody would say anything nothing I love it my wife wanted to go on a trip one time she called my captain and a captain all right and said can you take call this week oh I can’t why not Joe won’t let me was his response I’m a sergeant for God’s sake but he’s well he’s no he oh no he won’t do that so she made a deal with him and he did do that and we went on a on a trip she and I that’s funny you know who would have ever thought that but it’s only because I would turn cases and they knew I knew how and they just leave me alone yeah absolutely I mean so in what do you think your um cuz I know cops and I know how cops are what do you think your reputation was with people outside of homicide how do you think they co-workers F about felt about you was the eye twitching thing pretty much yeah it was pretty much the ey twitching thing I didn’t care about that either yeah I’m here to do my job if you don’t like the way I do it or you don’t like me it’s of no interest to me I didn’t care I didn’t have cop parties I didn’t go to cop parties I didn’t go to the Christmas ball I didn’t do any of that yeah and it was so driven to me once I’ve been married for 56 years to my wife we met each other in high school I was 15 she was 16 she took advantage of my youth and inexperience but anyway we wound up together forever and she had never been in Police Headquarters where my office was never been there so my daughter goes off to the University of Colorado and gets in a snit with a roommate and they think it’s the biggest deal since World War II and they call her mother you have to come up here you have to settle this problem there could be violence there could be violence yeah okay all right fine I’ll come up and see what’s going on so you can’t call me on the phone because I had ways to protect me from the phone uh you just couldn’t reach me so she came down to the police building and walked into the front desk and said I I need to speak to Lieutenant Kenda and the the PSR the police service representative the DK says do you have an appointment he said I don’t need one I’m his wife well that goes through the building like wild fire not only is tenda married it’s in the building all right everybody’s peeking around the corners and like is it a girl what do we think you know they’re all looking at her by the time I get downstairs she’s like backed in a corner she why are these people all staring at me said they want to see if you’re a girl come on let’s go but that’s how it was that’s so funny you know I never used my rank I just called somebody and say this is Kenda now the other thing that rattled everybody’s kid was another reason why they hated me if Internal Affairs was going to arrest a policeman for a felony I would do it as a commander of Major Crimes I would be the guy to go get you and take you in custody so if I walked into police substation or area command at 2:00 in the morning because I need to use a phone I need a computer I need a men’s room I’d walk in at 2: am. and oh that did not help your conscience I just need to use the measure oh thank God all right okay fine so yeah that was part of it too that’s funny I hold you to the same standard I hold everybody up yeah of course I had a kid I was in a locker room one night and midnight in a division and I’m wearing a suit you know and I’m working and I’m just standing there and everybody’s looking at me like what is he doing in here and here comes this cop I said hello John sir got a gun on you John yeah take it out two fingers put on the bench be careful here a pin drop he does he removes a pistol and puts it on a bench and I put him on a locker and I said you’re an arrest for sexual assault and a child put your hands behind her back and I marched him out and then I put him in prison sex crimes was on the areas I also controlled and uh it was just uh it’s way it is yeah I’ll back you to the hall of Congress do the wrong thing I’ll send you down the tube like everybody else absolutely got to police our own we must absolutely I I asked my same same guy the the homicide guy I told you about Davis Scotto in La for he did a stint in IIA and I said um and I only knew I’ve always worked at smaller agencies so IA was always just like someone in admin it wasn’t like a thing and I said um according to the movies I’ve seen nobody liked you and he said actually he said um La takes a lot of pride in their IIA because if you’re a good cop and you want the public to know that you would take pride in taking bad cops away and I said okay well well that just makes sense but I the movies don’t say that at all of course not no every policeman is an alcoholic who lives in a third floor walk up apartment with a hot plate because he’s been married nine times and uh he’s a rat and uh he’s corrupt and he’s all those things that’s the movies but remember it’s the movies right that’s why when I started homicide Hunter I told those clowns from the entertainment world I said hey you are risking your life if you try to alter something I say or we try to show something we never did you need to keep that in mind and I want to clause in this contract that I approve of everything in this show where it doesn’t go on TV smart I got that done so when people watched it it’s realistic because it is which is why I have so many cops that are fans because that’s what it is it’s what we just showed you you talk to people you learn things you move through things uh you learn a next place to go give me a lead that I can follow you know and that’s where it is yeah simp the um I don’t know if you know this show I too was on Discovery investigation I didn’t know that yeah no I didn’t it’s it’s uh not quite as prominent as you are obviously but uh I I think because of the podcast they it was a glorified like internet clip show basically I got a producer reached out some production company was working for Discovery and said they were basically just looking for cops who could have a title on the screen and say and comment on internet Clips the show was called exposed naked crimes that’s how high brow it was um but I looked at it particularly the words of the use of the word naked that makes it tells you it’s a high quality right so I look at it and they you know they they say um I said my only the only reason for me to do this is to get eyes on the podcast so you have to put things police see under my name otherwise like it’s pointless for me to do the show and they’re like yep we’ll guarantee that but anyway long story short it was I didn’t really get to show much personality or be do any kind of it wasn’t me telling my stories it was me the producer saying hey we really would like these points in this comment on this video and then me doing it like a like a monkey you know basically so it was and the show is if you watch it it’s kind of like that it’s not it’s not great but um anyways they gave me the contract and I’ve never seen a Showbiz Rider a thingy to sign and I read it and was terrified I’m like it sounds it sounds like they can they’re going to own this and they can clip splice or edit me saying anything and I cannot and then there’s a paragraph this big about the reactions I can have that are no longer valid which is like sadness depression uh lawsuits hurt to my reputation crying and so I sent it to my buddy who’s in Showbiz and I said can you look at this thing cuz is this standard and he looked at it and he was like and he knows the podcast and stuff and he and he looked at the production and he said yeah you’re that’s normal that’s what they always give you he said they’re not it’s not a gotta show they’re not you’re not coming on there so they can splice it together and make you look like a bad cop this is a legit internet show it was on TV but it was you know so it was fine but yeah those the way it’s worded if I was going to go on TV and like give my own they own it they own everything of they own you too and children and grandchildren and on infinitum and it includes anything that might be done in that regard that is yet to be invented they even say that in there yeah in case they can help with some other way to run film you know they’re covered you know it’s all written by lawyers you know Y and that’s that’s the deal so when I started this thing they said the same thing to me I said wait a minute wait a minute stop stop you saw the pitri where I told you what I thought about things that’s why we’re here ready to film a season of my show right yes then why do I have 50 pounds of paper in my lap well that’s your script said no I’m not an actor I’m a policeman I was at this homicide and I don’t recall you being there valid point he said well uh well those are the the I said hey he said you have to do the script I said no I have to die and pay taxes I don’t have to do the script I can get back in my car and go back to Colorado and you can drop debt understand something I got over playing dress up when I was five you should have too and iy Mon and it worked at course he was piss I said I’ll tell you what you do you turn that camera on and I’ll tell you about this case for 15 minutes you don’t like what I say we’ll talk about this and he said all right because he’s of course he’s ready not to like it so I they turned a camera on I talked to 15 minutes looked at my watch I stood up I said is that what you had in mind um we don’t need that he said and took the script away and it’s never been one since I say whatever I want they take out the pro profanity you know but profanity is the language of the street I when you’re talking to Street people as I did a lot you have to talk like a street person yeah you have to address your audience in terms that they understand you’re talking to a lawyer talk like a lawyer you’re talking to a violent criminal talk like one yeah that’s what they understand right Joe can you I have a question for you um did you ever in all those cases you had arresting murderers did you ever have a guy or gal that you arrested and you were like you liked them or you were like it was kind of unbelievable that they committed such a heinous crime and you kind of like you know you you like them as a person almost could you get could you like them as a person no no I would never that never happened people never surprise me by what they do they disappoint me a great deal but they never surprised me if you allow your over your emotions to overcome your judgment then you produce the death of a human being almost every time and apologizing for it isn’t going to work we’re going to take part of your life or maybe all of it away from you that’s the reality of it yeah that makes sense there’s no there’s no personal anything I would tell them I’m a professional at this I don’t get angry I’m not going to raise my voice to you I’m not even going to threaten you we’re going to discuss this and if you don’t want to discuss it because you want a lawyer I would recommend you get two lawyers because you’re going to need both of them understood yeah I kind of figured that would be your answer I just I was curious um your wife was along for the whole ride since childhood um so did you to I dad you know but yeah she’s have course yeah not the safest uh career especially getting involved with what you were involved in um what was uh what was the impact on that for her and did you share anything was it helpful to share things with her or would you just kind of curtail the gruesome details I made a mistake by not telling her the details I for years I just kept it to myself that’s not a good idea I thought I was protecting her and all I was doing was pushing her away but uh I came when it all stopped she carried a gun for years at my assistance she’s an excellent shot by the way you don’t want her shooting at she should kill you and um and because of the I get threatened 100 times a week I’ll kill your wife I’ll kill your kids I’ll kill your dog you know the usual crap but I had her carry a piece and it was so she got so angry angry with me she wanted me to get promoted because once you make Lieutenant you’re field grade and you don’t have you don’t go in the street you’re a clerk you know you’re in an office you have minions that’s not me I was to kicking indoors when I was a lieutenant and it made her mad she talked me into taking the test and I got promoted but I just kept doing what I was doing it didn’t change anything for me other than I got a raise and uh that was it so we had a kid go to high school he’s from California he’s a Samoan he goes to this school he’s only like 16 years old but he tells all these local kids that he’s a badass gangbanger from East LA and he’s going to show them how to how to work this this deal they tell him they’re going to kill him after school it’s just kids they’re just running their mouth but this kid believes them so he’s not a gang banger his brother is his brother’s 24 years old and he is a definite gang member he calls his brother and says these kids are going to kill me after school so at 3:00 in the afternoon in a high school parking lot brother shows up with an Ingram Mack 11 with a 32 round 9mm magazine and it said where are these kids oh boy and he points to the car they’re in there’s four kids in there he hoses the car he shoots all of them one of them Di the other two of them almost die but there’s one dead three wounded plus he hits three or four other cars and a couple of trucks passing by in the street because he can’t control this weapon he’s just blasting until it goes dry and then he runs so it takes me four days to find out who he is and I called my wife as I had done a hundreds of times and I said I’ll be late we’re going to go get this jerk with his machine gun and I won’t be home until late and she says okay so I come be boobing in the door 1:00 in the morning all the lights are on uhoh this isn’t right I look around the corner she’s on the sofa she has a drink in front of her which is very rare and she’s in tears and I thought her mother died cuz her mother hadn’t been well and I said what’s the matter when she’s really pissed at me she calls me about my last name and she she looked at me she said kunda I can’t wait for you to come home anymore yes man so the next day was a Friday and I was home at 5:00 which just never to ciss ever so what are you doing here I said I live here well I know it’s only 5:00 I said I don’t I don’t have to go back to work uh on Monday well why not cuz I retired today it’s your turn wow that must have been hard to do it was and it took me two years to recover from that as I still had a lot of Venom in me but I managed to do that and uh I drove a school bus I love it yeah I called my bus a waldor hysteria because every on it was nuts including me I love those bits you know that was the only job I ever had Stephen where people were happy to see me nobody was ever happy to see me I love that that’s awesome man but I I just worked with a uh I worked a road job with neighboring Town’s Chief he’s coming up on 30 years and we were talking I said what are you gonna do he’s like drive a school bus M yeah it’s great you know and uh then some guy writes me a letter and tells me he’s going to put me on television which I thought was ridiculous and I threw it away and he writes a second letter and I threw that one away then he writes a third letter and I laughed when I looked at it and my wife sitting there and what are you laughing about well this guy’s got a sense of humor what do you mean well he said his opening line in the third letter was I know you’re throwing these away you’re right I am well who is he some guy who says he’s going to put me on television I’m like that’s going to happen you should call him enough calling him well you should know I I I don’t like TV people I’m not going to call them my wife has a PHD and nagging from a good school okay so four days of torture you going to call them in the morning or the afternoon what do you think uh you think it’s a good time what where is he California probably have to figure out the time zones and all this I never just didn’t stop and she wasn’t going to stop and I knew that so I know her very well maybe the only person in the world that can handle jok Kenda she’s got an Irish temper and you want to avoid the narrow blue eyes that’s bad when the eyes go narrow uhoh standby to standby so I thought all right peace in the family I’ll call them and here we are 14 years later my shows in 180 countries in 50 languages I have three books in The Marketplace a new book comes out a novel on September the 10th and I started another one last week and I’m filming season 4 of the renamed homicide Hunter colon American detective to tie it to me and the season 3 premieres May 29th on the ID channel and on uh all the other Warner Brothers Discovery platform Discovery plus and everything else and the first opening of that show is a 2-hour special on a a serial killer out of Laro Texas really interesting Co so staying busy as they say yeah the uh I think the Bible has a verse that says um the value of a good wife is higher than a a sack of the most precious gems or something like that so it sounds like you you got a good one I do her name is Mary Kathleen a good Irish girl but we don’t say the MW because we both went to Catholic High School and every time a none would say Mary 13 girls would turn around she went by Kathy you know because everybody else is named after the Virgin Mary and all that business yep and then 911 happens and I said you realize you got like four or five aliases that aren’t your name you’re Kathleen M Kenda M Kathleen Kenda you got to fix that so she does she fixes it all gets all everything in correct names and so on and so forth and it didn’t make any difference at all but whatever so C was mad at me for that but I said you know that’s not you your birth certificate because you’re Mary Kathleen not Kathleen M you know that it was really pretty funny that’s awesome Joe I’ve had such a good time chatting with you before before I let you go can you would you mind taking us through the Dian Hood um case you had in 1990 I think that one is so so fascinating it is fascinating it’s it’s a long story but I’ll give you the highlights we respond to report of a robbery shooting in a city park recreation center used for the purpose of people with a disease of Lupus having a meeting on a Wednesday night that had been a crime in in that neighborhood for 10 years very very quiet two of women walk out of there one of them’s got a purse they both have purses a male party and a military clothing ski mask large caliber gun walks up says nothing points a gun at Dian El Lan hood and she hands over her purse and he immediately shoots her he hits her in the left shoulder and knocks her down then he kneels in the blood and gives her a pass through shot through the chest in her left armpit and and exits her right armpit and breaks her right arm that of course is fatal goes through both lines lungs in the heart wow and then he runs away so we get there and I look this over and I looked at my guys I said this this is not a robbery I was a sergeant this isn’t a robbery this an execution why would he kneel down and shoot her why did he not shoot the other one and one thing led to another and we determined her husband Hood’s husband was 6’5 and a workout freak and an athlete and a college quarterback who was actually drafted by the Dallas Cowboys but didn’t make the final cut and now he sold life insurance so uh the witness says and you have to be careful when you ask people questions don’t ask somebody how tall somebody was people have no idea asked him this instead was he bigger than you or smaller than you well he was smaller than me well how tall are you I’m 5’8 well it’s not the husband he’s 6’5 but I don’t like this I just don’t like it I’m a student of human nature we inform Mr hood of the loss of his of his wife who is the mother of four children they have and he has no reaction now I’ve seen a lot of grief reactions that are all different but this guy acts as if he knew already that his wife was no longer alive a series of steps which we can’t go into because it’ll take too long we identify he has a girlfriend whose name is Jennifer Von RI she’s also married has two little babies her husband’s a major in the Army one thing leads to another we determine she was wearing her husband’s military clothing and she shot and killed her rival Diane Elaine Hood shot her to death because the husband had put a $400,000 insurance policy on her which they thought apparently you could live forever on 400 Grand which you cannot but they thought so and we take her to trial twice once she pled not guilty by reason of insanity she lost that then we charged her first SC murder conspiracy commits same uh and she is convicted of that and goes to prison for life a production company from Australia who are Advocates of women who’ve been under arrest for doing something at the behest of their boyfriend husband whatever doing a series of shows about that they select her as another victim of all this great and we’ve been in prison for 20 years on a life sentence you can ask for a pear hearing she had been there for 20 years uh this was right after right after the 2010 2011 somewhere in there and U she says that she was under the SP goly like influence of her boyfriend she didn’t mean this it was all a big misunderstanding and so I would go to my parole hearings as I get to the last word so I went to the hearing she was there and she sees me and just about drops over on of her chair I said hello Jennifer prison hasn’t been kind I see terrible so at the end of the hearing they’re all nodding their heads at the testimony from these Australians about how sad this case is because she’s just a nice young woman and you know all that on sense no longer young by the way but anyway is there anyone else I have something yeah I I do and who are you I’m the arresting officer oh well take the podium so I do I said I just have one question I need the answer to and I’m not sure who I should address this to there’s 12 members of the proor so I’ll just ask the question and I will determine who it is that’ll answer me we are here today to discuss Jenifer vre’s ear early release from prison is that right well uh of course okay then who among you can decide to release Diane Elaine Hood from her grave would that be you or perhaps it’s you or maybe you madam maybe you’re the one who can do that for him and they just stared at me I said no no answer perole denied excellent but then she got out anyway five years later because she developed cancer and it killed her so long Jennifer you little [ _ ] you know what I mean but anyway um so yeah that’s the it’s interesting I don’t forgive when I don’t forget man that’s crazy that is crazy that a a a group would get that much um steam to advocate for people that have committed crimes like that everybody all they have to do is wave the simp with the flag and everybody jumps on board people don’t like to make decisions they certainly don’t like to make hard decisions proof in a modern court is proof Beyond any doubt not Beyond A Reasonable Doubt because the jury wants to be able to say to their friends well they had so much evidence what could I do but find them guilty they want to lay off the decision they won’t stand up for it because maybe they won’t like me if I put this guy in jail human nature is disgusting when it follows by natural means and the reason I was a good detective is I understand human nature yeah I used to always say tell me a story I wouldn’t say this out loud but I’d say tell me a story I’m going to believe tell me a story about something someone in your position would actually do and not what you’ve invented to tell me right yeah absolutely decisiveness is so important and just coming up through my career and um the few different jobs I’ve worked and of course police world but um a decisiveness in a leader especially I noticed that uh leaders that were like really nice guys but were like too open to input and would like change course and like correct and it was almost like I’d rather you just be decisive about what you want done and if it’s not exactly right whatever but stop being so insecure about your decision correct and that was never me they was somebody I had one detective that always had an opinion I think we should no no no no no there you go thinking again that’s not your area all right I do the thinking you just do what I tell you okay you’re clear on that point now go do this and do it right [ __ ] now and come back here and tell me what you learned you know yeah that’s great Joe um the last the last episode you did on homicide Hunter um season 9 you you did you did a a murder a gruesome murder of a child in this bed um but you kind of always avoided that like you kind of never it seemed like you never wanted to do that what what made you change your mind for the the final one because I knew it was the end I’d already told him I was I was ending it I I had told him that when we finished filming uh episode 10 I said I’m done I don’t have anything else that is useful my other cases are either too simple we came we saw we arrested a grounder in the murder business we call it where you had you had a ground bottle the Shir stop and you get thrown out at first there’s no story it’s a murderer but there’s no real story or they’re just too gruesome for a general television audience or they involve children and babies and I won’t do those that one I wanted to do because I wanted people to understand how the impact of this work can have on you for all of your life that incident is one of my five recurring nightmares I see that kid every night you said last time you see you’d see a river of blood people waving as they went by oh that’s one of my other Dreams yeah of course my victims all saying hello in various stages of decomposition that’s wonderful so very nice brother that’s rough he it’s the price you pay for the work it’s worth it it’s worth it I put a lot of people in a cage most of them died in that cage and they deserve to absolutely it’s good work and somebody has to step up and do it so you know and someone capable like you it’s a it’s a huge blessing for wherever you’re working um Joe I got to ask you do you what do you do for hobbies and stuff what do you do what are your interests outside of police work we travel uh I like to fly airplanes I’m a licensed pilot nice um we go a lot of places do a lot of things see a lot of people friends of ours whatever and uh we like to go around we’ve been almost all over the world and uh and I believe it or not I get recognized all over the world real I bet yeah I mean how how often is that for you can you go out to the grocery store or well since I live in this little town in Virginia now because my son lives there everybody’s kind of accustomed to me being around now but they were is initially it was pretty embarrassing but now they’re oh hi Joe hello how are you you know it’s like any place else you become one of the locals but uh yeah when you go somewhere when we travel it’s uh it can be cumbersome as they say yeah Kathy and I go someplace and we’re sitting in a in a eery in an airport stuffing a cream Danish up our nose you know 12 people come and sit around us in a circle and stare at us they’re afraid to say something because maybe I’m a jerk maybe I have a gun whatever they just sit there and they stare at you and then finally somebody is an emissary he’s get up Nerf he comes over hi hello are you Joe Kenda I am how are you and oh he’s nice then Here Comes everybody and then you got to say I got to go I get plan your wife people and I fet the dog and hold the baby and all that it’s uh it’s what you should do yeah it makes him feel good it takes 30 seconds and it’s good for business they’ll tell their friends you know he was nice to my niece he was nice to my daughter to my to my husband and so I’m gonna watch that show I’ve never watched it but I’m gonna watch it because he was nice to me it’s great more should understand that yeah Jim Carrey was quoted huh I’m sorry go ahead finish I said you know it’s uh you didn’t have fans they wouldn’t have you right Jim Carrey said had a great great line when he said I’ve done something I’ve had such a blessing in my life that I’ve done something that when I meet people they only show me their best side and he said it can be you know it can be overwhelming it can be annoying but I can’t you know can’t I can’t forget that gift no one of the funniest things anybody ever said to me a guy ran across the street in Virginia Beach he’s wearing a suit I mean he’s not an idiot you know he almost got hit by a cab cuz he saw me and the cab he locked it up you know blue smoke and and he he just ignored it and kept running toward me and he’s looked at me eyes as big as sver dolls and he says do know who you are I said well as a matter of fact I do I’ve got a Virginia driver’s license in my pocket with my picture on it and fortunately it has my name as well and he got the St look at his face he said that was really stupid I said yes it I’m Joe Kenda who are you that’s awesome funny and we kind of made friends you know but it was like what you know I don’t know what that is but people get so excited they don’t know what to say or they say something silly or you know it’s just it’s weird yeah I had um I was once overwhelmed with with celebrity like they were everywhere uh I did um a job with a company in La where I was um essentially a bodyguard for LL Cool J and we went to the MTV um movie awards one year and I was backstage but the the beauty was I’m not allowed to really talk to anybody so I didn’t have to worry about like seeing somebody and them wanting to go introduce myself because that would be like you’re not you’re Uninvited to this detail yeah that’s right but I stood there and watched L Cool J hug Marky Mark and the kids from stranger things were running around and um and all I mean anybody you can think of Jack Black like all these people are like just walking by having conversations and I was like play it cool steve play it cool you can’t I don’t say I know yeah it’s crazy so Jo party in La for for the network all right and is their 30th anniversary of being in business this is a number of years ago but it went to Beverly Hill in LA and uh this girl who is I guess an actress I don’t I have no idea who she was she walks up to me kind of disapprovingly and confront ofely and says well who are you and I said ‘I in charge of parking cars and if you’re not nice to me a drug dealer is going to be driving your car around in tana and running hores out of the back he just looked at me you know it was really funny that’s awesome you got to have fun with it sure you do Joe you’re not a hard guy to find it’s almost it’s almost pointless but uh because you can just Google you and you pop up but uh on the screen right now I have I have the books here um and the book that’s about to come out and your two shows is there any place else that you’d want people to be able to reach your where can they go get your books it’s Amazon website yeah it’s an Amazon Barnes & Noble any place that sells books has all the titles two are are are actual cases of mine one the first one is I will find you which is kind of a semi biography of my career the killer triggers book is about there’s a ball of violence in every human being it remains at rest for most people for all their lives but once in a while an emotion of some type will trigger that ball to begin to move so I took 12 cases of mine that I worked and so what is the trigger that made this ball violence move and that’s that book Killer triggers that’s interesting all all is not forgiven is based on an actual case with the facts changed quite a bit but it’s a fictional book and this one coming out in September is also a fictional book first Do no harm because my villain in the book is a doctor excellent I love it good for you and you’re writing another one yep we just I just started it last week geez so I’ve thrown away the first two pages already six times so you know I don’t know it takes a while I bet it takes about six or seven attempts before you think you know that’s pretty good yeah I bet then you got have your wife read it or something have somebody look at it oh yeah yeah and she she usually looks at it says this is a piece of crap okay thank you dear I appreciate your support I’ll go back in my room yeah that’s awesome Joe it was such an honor to have you on the show again man thank you for for wanting to come on and and chat with us again hey no problem anytime you like okay excellent thank you I’ll um I’m gonna do the outro it takes about two or three minutes can you hang on for a second and chat afterwards uh I gotta go I gotta be at a charity event here like five minutes ago so I I fortunately I got to take off got it all right well I’ll let’s keep in touch and uh thank you again sure you got the email so just that’s the easiest way to read me I don’t have an agent I don’t have anybody I got me that’s the way I like it way absolutely all right thanks brother you bet see you the great Joe Kendall ladies and gentlemen uh what a fun time having him on and and really just letting it rip talking about um all different aspects of stuff not just his uh his biggest cases so uh thank you to him for coming on this is the time in the show when I thank the patreon sponsors let me get that up who I’m talking about is Ja family the great Jessica King Jason La everybody Bentley Barnett Zachary pleet the great Sheriff Ronald long awesome for Andy everyone the great Adam McMahon Clark Lov Nancy Hammond Zack Haney The Great Brad Thompson Kyle Roberts Elliot Sykes ladies and gentlemen the great Dave Elman Richard tols keep on trucking brother Doug and Kelly Newman I’ll see you church love you guys Dan Carlson from Bly boards amazing woodworker check him out on Instagram Scott young the great Thomas Connell Dennis kisu everybody none other than George Tessier he at church brother Iceman from mot cup Chronicles Greg Gad booy the great Ben Peters Scott minkler Tammy Walsh keeping it holding it down to dispatch Sean Clifford the great Sasha McNab Jason laau ladies and gentlemen Lauren sson Jake pineer johnan shoe maker the great James Rose Seth Wright Tony Fey everybody William James onong that’s stut William James to you the Great and Powerful Andy bigs everyone the great Chris June Adam 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the podcast so guys thank you so much and I will see you next week [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]