Mall Gunfight, Pregnant Woman Attack, Officer Dying In His Arms

this is things police see firstand accounts with your host Steve GoldWelcome to the podcast that interviews active and retired police officers about their most intense bizarre and sometimes humorous moments on the job It is I OldGingerface here with you as always Thank you for being here guys We have a great show ahead of us Um my hands are areabsolutely destroyed from I think you guys are aware I have a a German Shepherd puppy He’s 12 weeks old now Andman he is just before I came down here He is an animal I forget I don’t know Maybe because I like dogs so much Ialways forget what this stage is like But I also have a 5-year-old now and he doesn’t fully understand what dogs arelike obviously So he’s like the puppy is constantly biting him and he’s like “Oh but I love him Why is he biting me?” Soit’s uh it’s a struggle If you hear um any commotion in the background that’s that’s what’s going on in the house Butuh his name is Oscar and he’s a red sable German Shepherd Beautiful dog from Vander Von Brookfield Kennels I believeit’s called Um real longtime breeder and we’re super excited to have him and we have uh you know we have all those fondmemories of Cash the Cash Man that unfortunately went on us early but now we have Oscars So uh we’re excited forthat I hope your I hope the start of your week went well This is a Wednesday you’re hearing this So I hope things aregoing well for you wherever wherever it is you listen You might listen in the gym on the way uh to work on the way back from work Uh maybe on a day off Idon’t know But mostly it seems like people listen to podcasts when they’re on the move or they’re doing something else And that’s what’s so great about podcast Um you don’t have to have a 100%of your attention watching a video or something You can just listen So guys before we get the show started I need totell you about a fantastic disabled veteranowned business called Blackbox Safety They’ve been they’vejust been awarded a nationwide contract through Source to provide point blank body armor to law enforcement agencies across the country All agencies receivea 38% discount on PointBlank best shields and helmets I love Point Blank It’s what we use at my agency as I’vesaid before Get your team geared up with the most advanced ballistic protection customized for your department To learnmore head over to blackboxsafety.com Drop them an email at sourcewellblackboxsafety.com or connectwith them on Instagram at blackboxsafety All that information will be in the show notes Great company Um and really thisis to the the coppers and the admin out there You know everybody has to buy bulletproof vests We all use grantprograms and everything else And I know a lot of admin is just kind of set up with they use who they use But I would Iwould say do you bring it to your admin or if you are admin think about think about using a disabled veteranowned company I mean he’s he’s got the biggestcontract in the country for soft body armor and it just would feel better to put the put the money towards a companylike that So go check out Blackbox Safety Thank you Blackbox Safety We loveyou over here Uh all right guys today’s show um great diverse uh law enforcementbackground did 10 years Arizona DPS uh trooper and SWAT Maricopa PD three yearsCassie Grand PD for six months before he was injured Also worked on the US Marshals Fugitive Task Force and uh didnarcotics and undercover work in his career He recently completed the Warriors Ascent and he now volunteersfor them Without further ado let me bring on the great Stevenves Svetska right seesca Yeah somedude Can I get a copy of you uh saying the great that’d be awesome Yeah Heyprove it to him Absolutely my man It’s great to have you brother Oh and maybe the most importantly uh uh follower ofChrist so I appreciate that man Yeah I love it man Follow of Christ Yeah YeahSo good And you are I mean quite the career you have I mean you you you worked at a few different agencies had afew different uh different specialties Um do you have a favorite which one you look back on and go “Man that was themost fun.” Easily the the US Marshals Fiji task force Yeah that that was ifany of you guys out there have that ability Um first of all the task force is just an amazing asset to anydepartment because you’re going to get uh you’re going to get top tier dudes coming in and cleaning up your communityfrom um the worst of the worst And um but it was just it was just so much funAnd we were very blessed that uh the US Marshall over the district of Arizona was David Gonzalez and he was actually aretired lieutenant from the Arizona Department of Public Safety Uh oh wow So we had a great working relationship withthem and so I was myself and a guy named Pete Um he we were both full-time SWATand then we got attached to US Marshals Spieg Task Force Um so when we weren’t doing SWAT calls we were doing taskforce stuff and then we became the tactical resolution for all the US Marshals stuff statewide Yeah It’salmost like the Marshall’s task force is almost like the culmination of the most basic thought you have as a little boywho wants to be a cop It’s basically get the bad guy You know what I mean there’s no I mean police work is very dynamicbut with US Marshals Task Force it’s you have a target he is bad and it would be great if you got him out of the community and that’s what you do rightyeah Dude that’s as as you know it takes sheep dog for the wolf So yeahAbsolutely So you said a retired lieutenant became the US marshal of the area is US that’s not an electedposition US marshal So no What’s a presidential appointee okay So you don’t So the age limits are kind of thrown outwith that Yeah No Yeah he Yeah Um I believe that he still is the the themarshall Um the one mistake I should have done is is when I was on that task force he kept telling me he’s like”Steve man you got you got to transfer over.” And at that point in time I’m working uh I was full-time SWAT and taskforce dude So my overtime was just off the charts Yeah So it would have been like a $50,000 a year pay cut to startoff to go to like a GS5 level Um but over the course of like two and a half years it would have been uh beneficialPlus it would have gone to a federal retirement In Marshalls you you would have went toFlexie and then to the Marshall specialty and all that Yeah Yeah Yeah Idon’t hear the federal government has that much as much overtime as bigger municipalitiesNo Well and with the Marshals if actually with the Marshall serviceyou’re you’re a law enforcement code federal code is 1811 and um so you get a25% above your your salary and that covers all your overtime I mean dude we had we had these guys at T from Kingmanprison I don’t know like 2008 2009 something like that And um they killed acouple people in New Mexico Did some carjacking We chased them Uh I stepped down in 11 different states We wereflying commercial with our M4s in and carryons you know We had we had our our federal flying armed um license And yeahit was it was crazy It was like I was logging in ridiculous amount of hours and all the the federal guys was like”Yeah just a another eight hour day.” Yeah that’s tough I mean it it sounds cool but that that’s got to be toughthat after a while after you’re not like you know what I mean because that’s an incredibly hard job Very demanding You always got to go when they call and thenyou’re not really you’re working with people that are making bank and you’re kind of you get the prestige of being aUS marshal but that’s about it Yeah Yeah I mean you know at some point I mean if you have a good chief that’s over thetask force he’s going to be watching that stuff and let time adjust rightyeah That’s that’s good too Go on a big mission like that and then come back and just don’t go to work for a month YeahYeah Absolutely Yeah Hell yeah Um Steve so can you take us way back in yourcareer when you were a young officer or young trooper um your first hot call you went towell I would first if I may I want to tell you about my first traffic stop It wasn’t a hot call but it was literallyjust got done with uh the briefing at roll call Um man I’m I’m I’m flying solofor the first time And at this point in time just going through FTO I was already called a [ __ ] back because of all the stuff that we got into um justwhile I was a traininee And so we pull out and literally it’s in Mesa Arizonawas our substation I’m pulling driving on this road called uh Country ClubDrive And anybody that’s in the the Phoenix metropolitan area they they they’re very familiar with Country Clubin Mesa And I see this Impala and it’s got out of state plates and I go and runit and um it comes back to um I I wantto say it was like a Dodge truck I’m like “Excellent So here we go Fictious plates.” And so I call for another unitand I I light them up and pull them over and um the other unit pulls up behind meSo I get up and I’m pretty anxious I go and you know put my fingerprints on the on the uh the trunk and and walk up justangle in the u the door and all of a sudden the window comes down there Super tinted windows Uh and it was a guy on mysquad in in the unmarked car and I was like “Oh man.” Yep And uhso that was the very first I pulled over one of the guys working in Mark R Um youknow they they work so they can um catch up to you know speeding reckless drivingdifferent things like that on the freeways within Phoenix without being no noticed and people slow down But uh thevery first hot call um this was actually pretty crazy had been on for about sixsix months and got a call of a a vehicle all over the road and that’s you know a DUI and you get that a lot and I happento be in the area and so I’m I’m driving and I see it It’s a SUV and it’s it’sit’s literally it’s all over Um so I I do get out and do a traffic stop and uhthey go to the passenger side because this you know this is on the side of freeway and um so you got cars going byyou at 80 miles an hour easy and um I I go to the passenger side and as soon asthe passenger is a female and there’s a male passenger in the back seat directly behind him and this huge dude probably6’6 driving and um I smell alcohol right away um driver tells me “Yeah these I’mnot drinking These guys were on their designated driver.” Well um guy in theback I I run them He’s got a misdemeanor warrant And uh so that’s when thingsstarted going bad And um then what’s really crazy the girl startstelling me “Oh that’s my brother You’re not arresting him My mom is a a commander with so and so agency a veryvery large agency.” um in the the the Phoenix metropolitan area and uh so theystart getting uh real real froggy and um ends up what I’m like well I call forbackup and um I go to open up the door the guy hits me with the door and thenas soon as that happens the girl opens up the door and reaches out and grabs onto so I’m like oh man so I’m you knowI’m trying to grab on to her and I switch over to my left So or I grab on her with my right hand and then I go toto my taser and then the dude hits me with the door again and then he gets out and starts coming around and then I gotase him with my left hand as I’m holding her up against the as she getsout and then big dude gets out And so then I was just like “Oh man.” I I shoulder into the girl I got the otherdude on the ground tell him to stay on the ground I think I tased him like three times and I call for uh a 1091which is a hurry up and get here Yeah And you don’t hear that very much And sothat sends in the uh um basically everybody that’s in the AO including uhdifferent agencies and um the big guy comes around the the the corner And soat this point in time I’m I put the taser underneath my armpit I’m holding her with my my left and I take my rightarm and I’m drawing down on him telling him to back off And then all of a sudden uh Phoenix Firebird thehelicopter comes overhead and they hover bro literally about 10 or 12 feet abovethe freeway with flashlights and the Wow And then just cars start screeching infrom every probably three different agencies And uh yeah we ended up getting them hooked up and got charges filedagainst them and um the the charged them with resisting arrest aggravated assaulton a police officer And their mom that uh commander ended up going in inArizona uh you could put in a foyer request freedom of information act and pull all your time sheets everythingyour whole wreck in Arizona everything is public and uh she pulled over a yearI think I’d been on a year and a half at the time She pulled over a year and a half of my time sheets to have somebodygo through to try to find an any kind of error that could cause a What a scumbagdude It was it was crazy and it was it was super stressful Um that was thefirst uh like hot call that I actually put out Um dude that is that is thatgrosses me out so much that that a commander from another agency would do that That I mean that’s got to be uh Iknow you can do that as a member of the public but that’s got it’s like retaliatory you know it’s like you can’t just you just can’t face the fact thatyou’re your kid made a mistake and needs to be punished like Yeah No I mean thisthis is before the you know the entitlement This is 2005 probably And yeah holy cow I meanyou know the kids were in their late 20s early 30s Yeah Yeah So it was it was I mean sothey were you my age at the time Um but yeah it was it was great Spare the rodspoil the child Geez No kidding And I can only imagine what what great upstanding individuals those kids turnedout Yeah Damn man That was a good one I like the chopper part That you must feellike a badass Like hell yeah dude It it was it was an unbelievable feeling atthat point in time man I you know I went and I shook everybody’s hand that showed up and and uh that’s the huge differenceabout working in the Phoenix area versus working rural areas where you you don’t have that at all And I’m just like man II I feel good but I also know that if I’m going to call out urgent assistance needed um that it better be real Itbetter be real because everybody’s going to be coming Um and that was the cool thing the Phoenix area all the the thePDS SOS and DPS all work very very Yeahsounds like Have you ever been to a code 91 that everybody’s like might have been jump might have jumped the gun a littlebit um I didn’t because people in our agency at least with DPS were very veryhesitant um to call it out and sometimes they’d kind of skirt the system and be like”Hey got to get some backup um code three.” And it was just it was it was another way of saying it Um but uhwithout saying “Oh oh [ __ ] I need help.” Right Yes You’re not you weren’t working with a bunch of scaredy-cats or anythingNo you did a pretty good job of of there there were there were the uh the enigmasthat uh there there’s one story I could tell you about You’d be like “There’s no waythat guy kept his job.” I’d be like “Oh yeah he kept his job.” Yeah We’ve we’veall run into people like that in the in the field that like you ever met like another cop and you’re like feel likeyou should be like an elementary school teacher or something You know what I mean like they’re they don’t they don’t have the ability to like initiatehands-on They always to a fault try to talk themselves out of the situ You know what I mean and you’re just like Yeah Ifeel like uh don’t push it This isn’t for you You know yeah you like you go up on a traffic stop and you you know yousee the gun sticking out from underneath but see you see the guy with the uh theduffel bag with you know weed or or coke in the back and they’re just like oh you know I’m just going to issue a warningfor uh for speed have a good day they don’t want any trouble yeah rightthe first um the actual hot fall that I got that I remember was um what’s calleda was a 962 so it was a vehicle um collision with injuries And um so we gorolling and and we we hurt It’s pretty bad um for people on scene that they they’re saying “Hey dude dude is alreadydeceased uh on one of them.” So we’re we’re running pretty pretty hot And umum I could tell you definitively that uh the highway patrol uh trooper vehiclescould do 130 miles an hour Um I know that definitively So we’re coming up andand uh another guy that was on my squad Carl he ended up getting there first onscene and I’m still running I wasn’t sure exactly where it’s at And so there was a dip that went down in the freewayand and then it came back up As soon as I came up I saw Carl’s car park stop andso I had to slam on the brakes I was driving way too fast Yeah And I’m not sure if I was driving with due regard ornot And so I literally kind of slide past him but I miss him and I go and park and we get out and it was prettybad There was one guy that was uh was definitely deceased The other guy was DUI And as we’re starting to to assessthat situation we hear another and we look back and there wasan SUV that I think was driving the same way that I was and came upon us slammedon it to brake and then rolled And so we look back and we see the SUV in the airrolling like this Dude the driver is ejected and we see his body going likethis and then he’s his head hits the freeway and like skips takes out a chunkof his head and then he goes off into the ditch The car comes to a stop and I think it was later determined that itrolled like eight times in the air and on the freeway and the wife was wearing a seat belttotally unharmed So she gets out and um she’s like what is going on and she’sand we’re you know running back over there too or one of the other guys in the in our squad Brandon um just takesthe the driver that caused the other fatality handcuffs him to the steering wheel calls him an [ __ ] and says”We’ll be back.” Which I just thought that was funny It was like three years my senior And so we get there and andshe’s getting out and and by the time we got there she was walking around looking for her husband Oh man She was incomplete shock And we found him um like 10 minutes later Yeah we’re we’re kindof following the scene and we see the blood splatter and the scrape on the freeway We found him like 10 minuteslater and his part of his head was gone and um I was like “Holy smokes manWelcome Welcome to the greatest show on earth.” Huh Yeah That that was that wasthe very first hawk call that I remember That is crazy Just compounding It’s likethis is crazy now It’s getting crazier man Yeah So two uh two um yeahfatalities right right there and I was like geez dang you guys have to shut down the whole road for that um lane fora long time Yeah So yeah then you just get to um they have to go off off rampand then come back on at the next off So yeah with was something like that I mean obviously we had the the criminal andthen we just had the civil action and it’s like okay well is there going to be you know criminal charges against drivernumber one for causing the second collision and that we we the highwaypatrol had a they had a specialty unit the reconstructionistYeah Yeah Yeah Those guys have a good spot after they retire because they gowork for insurance companies and get paid big bucks those guys and EOD guys that go work for TSA and just sit aroundairports and wait for uh weird weird devices Have a nice little labador retrieverwith you and drink coffee Heck yeah That is a that is a wild call Brother can youcan you describe a strange or bizarre thing you dealt with on the jobum I think one of the strangest was uh we got a call of a uhfemale wandering around on the freeway and she was acting acting bizarre and II pull up and I I locate her and and she’s on the opposite side of the freeway And so I get out and I I call itin and it was a black female and she appeared to be uh nine months pregnantand she um was not going to go with me She ended up she was high on PCP So Iended up having because with highway patrol you got to think if you get into a tussle on the side of the freeway andyou roll into the you know into the into the the lanes of traffic you’re you’re going to get smashed So we had a littlebit more um liberal use of force at least back then on you know tasing andeven even if you had to to to pump somebody to try to knock them out to end the end the threat so it doesn’t becomea threat of you both you be hit by cars and um boy this this lady um was notgoing to go with me and she was not going to get off the freeway I go hands on to try to to grab on to her knowingthat she’s nine months pregnant And she she she dots me right in the eye and right from the end the boxing match wason Wow Yeah I couldn’t get in close to her to to try to get hands on without worrying about the baby because she wasjust punching me in the face Oh my gosh Yeah And then a uh I think uh he was a amajor commander at the time His name was uh Tim and he’s still with DPS Kim Jonghe ends up coming over and he asked to help get help me get her into custody That was that girl was she could fightand I was like that is absolutely amazing And then all the other weirdest things that I’ve had um was a trafficstop on these five gang members that were uh getting ready to go do a drivebyand they all had guns One of them had a Tech 9 and um so I’m I had anotherofficer that was with me and she’s on path She’s on driver’s side I’m on passenger side And I got my my gun out Icould kind of tell what was going on with you know gang members Super nervous Tell them to put their hands on on thethe the roof And then I’m like I’m going to get you guys out slowly If any of you guys move and start reaching forsomething you’re going to get shot Like so where where are the guns at and then I see the guy in the back seat kind oflook to the left and the right to those guys like what what should I say and uhI’m like this is a deal We’re going to find it and I don’t want to shoot you guys but I will Um and I was using veryvery explicit language that gang members understand That’s how you talk to SH members because if you oh sir I’d liketo I’d like to see your hands They’re just not going to respond to that and they’re not going to respect you So weend up uh getting them out All of them had guns Got them hooked up Uh and then we called the gang unit to come over Andthen there was a lady that was standing off by the side bro And she has to talk to a supervisor And a sergeant comes Andthis lady she filed a a complaint against me for using the f-word againstthese gang members Sergeants you know takes takes down her statement and then she goes up shestarts talking to the gang members and they’re like you know hey how did uh you know Trooper Sebast did he did he swearyou was he disrespectful and he’s like yeah he swore but no he wasn’t disrespectful at all He’s like well youknow did did he scare you did he intimidate you they’re like “Yeah you know we were thinking that if we wentfor our guns he was going to kill us.” Yeah that’s what that’s what you wantAnd um so yeah they’re like and then the sergeant was like “Oh do you guys want to file a complaint for his treatmentagainst you?” And they’re like “What no.” But that lady did and it was a stain complaintUnbelievable Did they Did you catch a day off for that or something no it was just it was my first uh myfirst one and it was just kind of going back over the uh um just the policiesand they’re like “We get it.” And they’re like “Hey sometimes you know you’re going to have to do what you you’re going to have to do to controlstreet officer presence.” Um right But you’re also going to have to understand that if something like this happens umthere has to be documentation Yeah I mean geez it’s people are unbelievable They stick in their nosesand stuff like that and they don’t have an understanding It’s like the balls on some people I can’t believe it It’s likewe we we recently had a a Uber driver have a flat tire black kid and I’mstanding on the side of the road with him and then we’re actually trying to change his tire for him to help him Another cop shows up He brought a um hebrought a uh a wrench from um the highway garage because he thought it wasa different size and the kid didn’t have anything And um we’re like trying to help again Then we end up just standingthere in the front of the car chatting with him waiting for a tow truck because none of us could get it to work This white lady drives by at like 7 miles anhour and she’s like “Are you okay?” And we’re looking at her like they beating you Yeah Who who are youtalking to and she’s like “Sir are you okay do you need help?” And he’s like “Yeah I’m good I’m good.” I’m like “Yeahwe’re just helping them out.” They’re like and she just mean mugged us and drove off And I was like “What the hell?” You know I work ina rural area too where there’s like you know there we don’t have like um innercity mixups with the with the cops going on all the time you know what I mean we’re very much helping you change your tire or you know help help you find yourlost kid or you’re breaking up your stopping your husband from slapping you around like all that stuff And it was itwas just like to and that’s only a tiny taste of it And and city cops have to deal with it all the time And I I I justdon’t know if I could do it If if on every call you had people chirping like in the cities it would it would just drive me nuts You just I would feel likecrap all the time That’s in 2018 So my last day of job wasNovember 2018 and and uh my back was so jacked up man And I was I was going tocalls bro And I was standing at the door and just like even you know cold nights in Arizona and uh I’m sweaty justprofusely because of the pain that’s in my lower back getting in and out of the bar and um but you during that time itwas after Obama started saying some pretty preemptive stuff about cops and you know act stupidly and blah blah blahand um yeah So I mean look look at look at me with my bald head tattoos from theMarine Corps I’m automatically a racist and a skin head And it’s like sure Well my my wife is uh she’s first generationMexican you know I never bothered tell anyone that Bro I’ll tell you what the black officers on our on um thedepartment they got it the worst Proforce Law Enforcement sponsors this show It’s the best damn cop shop in thenation Whether you’re purchasing for an entire agency or you are an individual officer looking for firearms or dutygear these guys are the best in the biz They have law enforcement exclusive pricing and it’s the place you want tobe buying your guns and duty gear guys Um right now I’m on the page the landingpage I made tps.proforceonline.com You should go check it out The deals are fantastic Youcan just scroll through right here and see a hollow 507c 199 That’s nutsAimoint Acro P2 red dot for 1230 cents Um just great deals and it and the listgoes on and on I I I highly suggest you check it out if you’re into guns and gear These guys are have great customerservice They can help you through the purchasing process If you’ve ever been a procurement officer and you know those pains these guys can make it painless Sogo check them out Links are in the show notes Thank you Proforce law enforcementOh yeah he’s because now they’re Uncle Tom’s They’re race traders Oh yeah race traders And just I felt so bad for thoseguys man Unbelievable It’s nuts man What a world Steve What aworld Um can you tell us about your most intense or terrifying call that you went onum one of them it was actually scary This was uh so end of the shift We hadthe state um department of transportation gas pumps and and lots that we could go to to fill up And soI’m filling up and I hear um some rustling down at the the at the the baseof the gas pump and I look down and there’s a kicky that’s down there Andthis is this is right on the edge of Salt Reser Salt River Reservation injust north of Mesa Arizona And so I’ve never been a a fan of cats allergic tothem Uh I think that they might be uh here by the devil’s doing but I’m not abig fan either Yeah Yeah I’m pretty So anyway I go down to pet this dang kitThis thing locks onto my finger Like I literally still have scars Locks onto myfinger and I go and I pull it up and I go to try to shake it and it it would not go off So I take out my gun and I’mlike this I’m like “Oh no.” So and so I holster it and I have to pry it apartand the cat leaves And so I have to report this And so my sergeant umSergeant Sheila she was uh she was she puts it in the bladder of you know thesignificant things that happened the night before and she makes it sound like it was a mountain line and the way thatit was raring it was huge And then after that you I’d check on and I you know get go 108 and we’ll get on itBut uh that that was scary I’ I’m literally I’m I’m afraid of uh cats since then I don’t trust them Um one ofthe other ones that we had Go ahead I say dude um I totally understand thatstory and what you’re talking about because I’ve seen some real scary things with like wild cat like street cats orwhatever My buddy bringing his dog into his little apartment in Maine there was just this weird looking cat sitting onin in the way of the door and his dog was a great protective dog but but reasonable you know was kind of I thinkit had like chow in it And it got into a fight with this cat and could not getthe cat to stop attacking my buddy and the dog moving so fast cutting soquickly It was insane And by the end of it both my buddy and the dog were abloody mess They’re I’m telling you they are efficient killing machines Did theyturn on you you were screwed Deadly uh they’re the most deadly animals because of all the the rodents that they killdude Yeah So that’s uh I had to get all these shots and it was terrible Yeah Sorry I had to add that No that that’sthat’s great And that that makes me realize that I’m just not such a huge Yeah Um we do actually My my wife’s ahuge cat person and we have a a cat Um it’s a Siberian something or anotherhuge fluffy cat named Kushnikov That’s great So he he’s Yeah he’s prettycool And then we have a I’m a huge dog guy and uh always had German ShepherdsFavorite dog in the whole world that my allergies kept getting worse and worse and worse being more German shepherds Somy wife did uh a bunch of uh research and found that miniature schnowzers are the mosthypoallergenic And so we got him and and his name’s Mouser Um German gun So wegot the German and the Russian gun And uh he’s he’s the greatest dog I’ve ever had So he’s he helped me a lot Butanyway awesome So um I was with the US Marshals Fugitive Task Force and we’rewe’re going after this guy who had been in a a shooting with one of our other officers and believe it or not one ofour other officers shot him in the head and it did it’s just it it didn’t go all the way through He gets booked into theMaricopa County uh jail and but he had misdemeanor warrants as well as thefelony charges So they process him bro for the misdemeanor warrant and release him Whoa They didn’t they like didn’tsee the combination So he gets out So it led to a pretty big manhunt And so wethink that we we have a location on him He goes mobile He’s in a vehicle and wehave a helicopter up Um I think we had a team of like six car and we’re we’refollowing All of a sudden he notices the helicopter and then it’s game on He exits and goes into Chandler Mall and umand uh he by this the gig’s up at this point in time So he gets out and we’re in front ofuh I want to say it’s Sears and he just starts slow rolling right in front ofthe entrance into SE into Sears Uh gets out of the car with a gun bails Um thecar hits So right now the chase is on We jump out Uh I got my my my body armor Itsays police and US Marshals on I have an M4 and he runs into Sears and as we runinto Sears uh another guy wouldn’t open the door and I’m the first one in So I was point cover and I start yelling”Please everyone on the ground Everyone on the ground.” And this is what everyone does Just stops and freezes looks and then goes like this Oh noTheir phones So he he go Yeah So he goes out and he exits And then we had anothercouple teams that went around and engaged him in a gunfight in between the two stores And then he runs into toNeiman Marcus And um so now we got an active shooter in this mall and man weit just he ends up getting out um and goes into a uh a fast food Mexican fastfood restaurant and um walks in fires off a couple rounds into the into theroof into the ceiling tells all the customers to get out takes all the um employees hostage and then goes backinto the kitchen where they have a porcelain tile takes cooking oil and puts it all over the four So thatknowing when we make entry Oh it’s like Home Alone dude So anyway so make KevinMallister Yeah dude It was it was impressive And he you learned that from somewhere I’m sure from prison Butanyway so it we had we we engaged into two gunfights with him and just clearing the mall and you know being inside Searsand then Neiman Marcus not knowing if he was you know behind the clothes rack and we’re like “Wow.” You talk about youknow being aware of your backdrop and it was it was pretty crazy man And then umhe ended up giving up And this is the craziest thing dude It wasn’t the guy that wethought It was a totally different dude Real name was Adam Rodriguez And he wasgetting ready to go rob a bank And he straight up told he he admitted all thisAnd he said “Dude,” he’s like “The only reason I shot it to you guys is cuz I thought you were the gang unit If I would have known that you were themarshals I would have never shot it.” Oh well that’s nice at least Yeah but itwas the that was that was that was pretty scary man Um damn My my radiowasn’t working inside the the mall for whatever reason So this this is probably2010 And so I had a flip phone And so literally I just I called our dispatchand I got the flip phone right here and I just stuck it down in my vest so I could still be on on my platform whiletalking and and kind of hearing But it was damn that was that was scary just because you don’t know if he’s going tojump out and start shooting at you Yeah Is he going to take somebody hostage and then uh that was pretty intense YeahWhat even if someone that kind of looks like him jumps out and you’re pumped and you got a rifle in your hand dude I Idon’t know about you but I I mean I I carry everywhere I go I carry likeappendix I always carry a little 43X on me with a red dot And um I always thinkabout it when I go to a mall or someplace I always think about like how it’s such a soft target How like I’malways kind of looking around like man this would be not not the whole time I’m there but I think about it I’m like hm okay I think about where because Ialways have my family my kid I have three kids my wife I always think about like what what could we do what would I do um I think it’s just part of like ourtraining But um I know if I went through that call you just described going to amall after that would be I don’t know what it would it I would be on my high alert I’d be like hypervigilant probablyYeah Oh yeah 100% And that’s So I took a hiatus um after about 10 years on thejob with Department of Public Safety to go over to Afghanistan and do some contracting as a law enforcement Oh damnWhich was amazing dude I got to I literally got to conduct a criminal syndicate investigations on Taliban andterrorist activity Wow We’d talk about that some other time but it was it was pretty cool But I remember while I wasgoing there and I was at uh um in Clarksville um in Kentucky and I went togo see a movie and it was the first time bro that I had not carried I did not have because you know we were going onto base all the time Yeah And I went to the movie and I almost had a panic attack because of that situation thatMike and I had to leave Yeah And I was like what what if something kicks off and I don’t have a gun i’m not preparedI’m not going to be able to say help I’m not going to be able to eliminate the threat Um so yeah that the hypervigilance though brother I can tell you it it can wear away at you and it can bevery annoying for uh the family Oh yeah I’m sure I used to when I worked as abackground investigator over for the city of LA I worked with a lot of um coppers that did you know 30 40yearcareers very violent police departments including LA Um and they I mean they hada couple of them talking to them at lunch and stuff they had like um certain ways if the whole family was out and thewhole family came back at the same time My friend would had a certain way that they entered the house um he cleared therooms like it was like you know because they had these are ex gang officers and everything like that that had legitimatethreats their whole career and they just cannot shake it and Dave Kerku I think was like my second interview great guyum he was an Anglewood gang cop and um he was also a Marine but he said the difference was like when you were whenyou’re a gang cop he goes I would sit down at supper knowing I’m going back to work tomorrow like it’s I didn’t justcome home and go let me get some help let me let me un unwind myself This islike my life Like every day I’m going to war and then I come home in the same area where I do the war And um it reallygot to him and I totally understand why you know Yeah it 100% And that’s that’s one of the things that uh uh theWarriors descent program really helps out with with of learning to how to kindof deal with that Um yeah you said that that the biggest program and communityThe biggest part about that for you the reason you were able to successfully do it is um is your belief in Christ aswell Can you talk about that and just talk about the whole thing yeah 100% So it was it was great on on the very firstday of where he was sent sit down and there was I think 12 plus 13 of us umfrom all over the Midwest and he kind of just explained why you’re there and you know I talked about why I was there Ithought I was broken and I was violent and I’d been through two divorces and people just didn’t understand me becausethe hyper vigilance and I was you know always anticipating or expecting violence Uh I’ve been um involved eithershoot pulling the trigger or uh on scene for seven OIS’s Um and I’ve seen youknow multiple people kill themselves in front of me guns It’s pretty a lot of traumaYeah gets to it gets to you and until you’re willing to say you know what I’m going to I’m going to be that personthat I’m going to be um vulnerable and I’m going to talk about it and I’m not just going to drink I’m not just goingto go you know have extrammarital affairs Um I need to find something that helps me not only a brotherhood of otherpeople that that have gone through it but find other means like I know that you’re you’re into the jiu-jitsu andstuff that form of it Um oh I’m not else that really I’m a I’m a big wimp butI’ve talked about Okay maybe not Yeah Um and then um just finding something elsethat’s healthy but finding a program you’re going to laugh freaking yogatelling you yoga and um breathing techni just you know you that so you starthaving that anxiety or that the hyper vigilance you just start going through and you you picture this very peacefulplace in your mind that you’ve already predetermined and then you do combat breathing box breathing however you wantto say it yeah box breathing is really cool it is it Steve can I can I ask youa question like a a brother in Christ question about yoga um because I I don’t I I don’t know much about it I know itlooks like good stretching but I I get you know you’re on reals or you talk to other Christians and they they get umvery nervous that yoga is a religious practice of like Hinduism or somethinglike that But in my mind I always thought like well there’s there’s there’s no reason you can’t separate that out If you’re just doingphysiological things it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re worshiping a Hindu god you don’t you’re not evenaware of you know Has that ever did you look into that or did that bother you uh it didn’t bother me but it it uh it itwas definitely it made me think and it was a very whether you know it was God just telling me hey this is the the dealum Hindus pray Muslims pray so does that mean that you know when I pray thatthat’s another religion type thing but most importantly you know when when they’re talking about kind of your innerbeing and stuff like that my inner being is talking to God so why I’m why I’mgoing through yoga and meditating I’m praying I’m I’m building my relationship with Christ I’m the Holy Spirit thatbecome closer to him and just you know the Holy Spirit just come into me Um so no I I combined my my my faith and my myfollowing of Christ with the the medication and the yoga It’s kind of like Paul said in the Bible he saiddon’t you know if if if you have a brother that it bothers him to eat meat sacrificed to idols then don’t eat thosemeats in front of him But we have freedom in Christ And it’s kind of it’s all the condition of your heart right you don’t have to worry about100% Hindu demons coming into me Yeah No no not at all I mean just just praywhile you’re doing it And and I I am a absolutely definitive that someonecannot truly heal from trauma without Christ because that’s that combinationis allowed me to be in a place where I’m at And I I have 11 friends that have killed themselves Wow That’s terrible 11cops and uh and and and Marines and one civilian I’ve I’ve watched multiplepeople take their own life One guy with broken shower door They cut his neck infront um shooting pe people shooting themselves in the heads in the chest with 12 gauge in the stomach twice D Imean the craziest way And so without being able to look back on that how thatimpacts you because you know you go through that and then it’s like uh you know all right well what’s the next callokay I got a burglary call Somebody stole a a freaking yard statue Now I got to go deal with that or a domesticviolence So there’s no time for you to kind of stop So you know in between those calls you you just you’re you’retrying to find that peace and and find that happy place and and hopefully you know with with Christ you say a prayerand ask to give you peace and and understanding so you can move to the next person to help them because thenext person that that calls you and you show up to then that’s it’s still their worst day and they don’t care what youjust went through or it’s not going to impact the fact that it’s their worst day So you you have to you have to tryto make that that work And without my faith in Christ and meaningful toolsthat that I learned through Warriors of Sentin I don’t know where where I would be but I know mentally I would not be inin the place that I’m at of of wanting to get my message out and wanting to help other people um that are that arejust like me that are like “Ah that didn’t bother me.” like well you saw four people burn to death inside of avehicle scratching to get out of the out of the car and it was too hot to even get close to it you know that I had apolice officer die in my arms looking you know me in the face and I was thelast ugly face that he saw and he was scared bro and I you know just tried to talk to him and and then you see thelife go out of there that guy still temp officer motor officer and and that thatstill bothers me and I you know I just I just hope and pray that he was a he’s a believer found salvation and it doesbother you it does bother you and absolutely proper for help and drinking is not the answer I I know I knowfactually got learned I’ve learned bad lessons Yeah that’s dude that’s beautiful that that organization helpedyou I’ll put it up on the screen I’ll put the link in the show notes if you’d like to go support that organization Yeah I mean and I can always uh um youknow give you my contact information if anybody has any questions because sometimes it’s very personal for people to say “Hey do I want to commit to thisand am I ready?” Because you have to be ready It’s kind of like you know a drug addict being at their lowest point Youhave to be like “Man I need something My life’s [ __ ] I’ve been through divorces You know I I have alcohol issues I drinkto to extreme I get violent I have short trigger I get frustrated and anxiousHe’s guarantee you know 90 some percent of your audience is listening going”Yeah that sounds familiar Yep Sounds familiar.” Yeah totally Yeah I mean Trout you’re so right about You don’t want to be that guy no more No YeahAbsolutely Good for you for taking the wheel and getting some help I mean that that trauma is I mean every kind oftrauma too You don’t you won’t know that you’re having it Like I I remember just not even really to police work been totraumatic things at police work all that But I remember my when my first child was born she was intens in intensivecare had a hole in her heart um was premature all these issues really havinga trouble Then my wife got um a really bad E.coli coli infection and she gotput into uh she got hospitalized So then I was working I took some time off but Iwas working overnights and going back and forth the hospital and one day I went there was this very nice uh youngerred-haired which I like um social worker there and she said I came to chat withchat with you and I said oh well they’re you know uh my wife is got a coli andthey’re doing a blood transfusion and and my daughter’s in in intensive care so they’re not really available and she’s like no I came to talk to you I’mlike ‘What about i’m fine And she’s like well over the course of studying and insocial work and she explained the whole thing about like the the person that’s not sick who’s like two loved ones arelike lives are in peril She was like can we just have a conversation for half an hour and I was like absolutely And itwas really helpful the information she gave me And she said you 100% have trauma from this She goes I know you’rea cop and you think you don’t and you’re okay but you know here are some things to look out for and you know you knowhope everything will probably be okay and it was thank the Lord Um but she wasconcerned about me and my mental state and um she was right it it did it did impact me later on when you have time tocalm down and when you’re not like you don’t we’re very men are very mission driven task oriented when that kind ofgoes away and you have stillness it’s like oh now it’s time to freak out you know what I mean yeah and grab thatwhiskey Yeah Yeah You’re exactly right And I think one of the problems especially with you know the type Apersonalities that that we all are it’s we’re like h well it’s not like I was over in Afghanistan involved in you knowtroops in contact and I I wasn’t seeing combat It’s like you can’t you can’t tryto correlate your trauma with somebody else’s because trauma is trauma within your brain and your your brain justaccepts it that certain way So it’s not like okay well your trauma is worse than my trauma right i mean working you knowsex crimes and having to you know read corners reports on that stuff of you know babies that were were raped Thatthat freaking that’s trauma I worked the four and a half years that I worked with the US Marshalss two years was goingafter sex offenders And so since I was in state police and I was the one that had to charge I had to read through alltheir their previous history and their conviction and the crimes And I meandude I I I was I was Catholic and uh I hate to say it man I I’ve arrested fiveOh yeah That’s brutal Yeah For for for uh child molestation and sexual assaultor so that that gets in your head man So that that goes away trauma That is just a different type of trauma It’s no nobetter no worse Absolutely dude until you realize yeah I have been affectedbecause humans aren’t built to do this day in and day out and see this and feelthis Um that’s when you have you have to seek some kind of help or you’re going to end up uh you know getting fired oryou know divorced or you know alcoholic whatever it may be in a DUI whatever itmay be You have to find other ways Yeah absolutely brother Um I have anotherquestion here for you Um heartwarming story positive situationDo you have one i do Um nice One of the biggest things with with me is wheneverI I’d be driving around even if we had calls stat I’d see kids you know I’ll play football or basketball or whateveris just get out and play with them allow them to see hey in introduce myself asas Officer Sebesco or Steve or Detective whatever it may be so that they see thatyou’re a real person Um and man it it just just building that rapport withthose kids and then they’ll they’ll start telling you about the you know the crack house on the corner Sure When areyou guys going to do something about that you know Jimmy’s over there He’s been selling crack for you Never even messed with him but y but you’re outhere messing with us I’m like yeah I get it And I’m like you know we’re not try we don’t want to come off as messingwith you and just talk to them as as people and try to explain what you’re are doing And but when you’re out thereshooting hoops and playing football with them um that builds that that rapport with them that can lead to trust andthen they go home and tell their parents Uh so I I I love doing that That’s greatBut one of the specific things is you know I’ve I’ve gotten into shootingsI’ve got into plenty of fights and once I get the person hooked up I always stopand be like “All right man I I get it I was in a situation where I’m I’m trying to take your freedom and you’re like Idon’t want you to take my freedom and so you’re doing everything that you possibly can to get away.” Well your freedom is you’re you’re arrested rightnow You’re being detain and you’re not going anywhere So let’s start over You know my name is is Steve and this iswhat’s going on Do you have any questions about this and then just go back and kind of treat them as humansAnd brother I can’t tell you how many times that I’ve had youth that I’ve arrested and he fought like all outfights um start crying um and breaking down and then ask if they can shake myhand thank um you know before I close that cell door Yeah it is a naturalreaction for people not to to defend their freedom They’re you know they don’t want to lose it It of course Yeahthat would that would suck So I mean just just bringing back doing your jobbringing back that human aspect because this person that you just arrested they may not be a bad person They may havejust had a bad day And you know especially if they’re young man it could it could definitively alter the courseon on on how they they rebound how they jump back on that horse and if it’s going to be you know good future or orbad So um and then you know talking to them about you know just saying “Hey man you know you may have made a mistake butGod loves you and I love you.” And um nice A lot of times that’s that’s whenthe tears start rolling And you know there’s a lot of people that find Christ in in prison which Yeah God seeks thebroken Absolutely brother Yeah They say a good church is like a hospital not a not a you know we’re saints but we’resinners Yeah Um the words to a songThat’s great man Um can you tell us this is a popular question uh for the showThere’s people out there and um get a lot of emails about they just heard you guys tell your stories the men and womenlaw enforcement and they actually decide to to pull the trigger proverbal trigger and become a cop which is great becausewe need new cops Um what advice would you give to somebody thinking about it or might be in the process for being a law enforcement officerum number one try not to have expectations basedupon TV movies anything like that That’s justthat’s just not how it works That’s pure entertainment Going ride alongs before you go Going ride alongs with multipledifferent agencies and and different uh and different officers and and kind of talking to them about their perspectiveon how they go and try to you know enforce the law protective serve Um andif you’re you’re you’re looking at a certain jurisdiction or agency um you have to also understand that wedo our jobs and then we do a ridiculous amount of paperwork and then you submitthat and then our job is is done and you you have to leave it at that point unless it goes to you know trial orwhatever because there is going to be prosecutors that are going to look at it and they’re say it’s just have a juryappeal or um man we’re so overloaded We’re just going to offer them ple andyou know plea urgenc are are the absolute biggest thing that a that a prosecutor looks at because it counts asconvictions and so it counts at their as their conviction rate It’s a win Yeah It’s a win and it may not be a fair winand you know these they have to understand hey you may arrest this person and you’re going to spend you know a half a day doing paperwork andthey may get out before you Um but it’s the the times that you can actuallyimpact somebody’s life is when they call you they’re having the worst experience And when you come when you come runningin you’re there to to help them to save them And that is something that even ifyou do save one person um turn one person around in their entire careerThat that is an amazing human effort AbsolutelyAnd so that and then the other thing is don’t take take things personal You’reyou’re a representation of of a a system that is trying to put you in put a aperson that committed a crime or that we believe in prison to take their freedoms to take their liberties to take themaway from their family Yeah It is a terrible thing It’s very very personal to them But we’re not doing it againstJohn you know John Doe we’re doing it because we believe that they committed a crime There’s probable cause to believethat So they have to be held accountable So once that is is done you can’t take it personal If they punch you they callyou names they spit on you it’s very hard but it’s not you It’s not Steve Seas It’s not Steve Gold that that theywere doing it to It was the It was the shield Yeah And you can’t take thatpersonal And the other thing is you are going to see heartache you are going to see tragedy You’re going to see some ofthe worst stuff um that you can imagine seeing So you have to have something inplace a system uh a foundation in place that you can talk to people that you canhelp in help yourself that self-care in a positive manner from the get-goBecause you know as as you know rookies you get out shift and you go and drink and especially on your Friday on yourFriday and maybe you’re drinking to excess and and you’d be coating so callous You know I I remember we had a ahead-on collision of a a vehicle going wrong way and it hit a semi and it just exploded in flames man And it was crazyAnd we get there and you could see the charred remains of just a torso and that was it And uh we have this old sergeantHe’s just out there with this this wrinkled uh uniform on drinking a cup of coffeeand like joking about it and it’s that that callous Yeah It’s not becauseyou’re a jerk It’s because we see so much stuff we can’t let that get inside It helps you get throughYeah Have a have a game plan Have a healthy game plan Um hopefully it’s it’s it’s Christ It’s family It’s it’s uh umgardening Whatever it may be man Going to the range whatever it may be but just something in place that’s going to helpyou get to the uh through the bad guys Yeah I love that Words of wisdom Thankyou for sharing that brother I feel like I glazed over this earlier a little bit I want to ask I know I’ve almost had you here an hour but uh one last questionwas about um your role at um Warriors Ascent Um are you is this somethingyou’re you’re doing is it new are you you’re giving talks or what what’s going on um so with Warriors Ascent I wentthrough the program Um I’d been talking to them I um about the program met people that had gone through it andtheir founder uh he’s actually a retired Army special forces uh colonel namedMike Kenny and um and Warriors sent is for military first responders you knowEMT fire is think about all the stuff that they see every time that they go on a call Yeah The most part it’s a medicalit’s something that you know people are dying people are in you know suicide whatever it may be That’s That’s toughman Um and so I just went in there and there was a a guy named Matt Hasta who’s a Blackhawk pilot or Apache pilot I don’t remember combat uh armyguy And he’s like Steve he’s like when you go in there man just go in there with an open mind And really if if youwant help you’re going to have to look at it I’m going to go in here and I’m going to let let my guard down I’m goingto be very vulnerable and I’m going to allow this help to come in And that’s exactly what I did And the programworked for me That plus you know my my prayer and my relationship with Christ That combination just seemed to beperfect My wife noticed a huge difference in me Um she’s uh you know she’s 10 years law enforcement in the LAarea and in in Fairfax Virginia And um so it helped So I was just like man I Ineed to support this So I I’m not affiliated in any way with Warriors other than um I’m a spokesperson becauseI went through the program and I know that it helps um and I I’m just a volunteer and I want to see other peopleum get that kind of help and that’s what it’s for So other than that man I’m just I’m doing what I like to call public uhsharing So kind of was speaking about some of the stuff that I saw about you know hey this Marine SWAT gang narcoticsguy um been in you know shootings been in in combat seen the most horrificthings He’s willing to let his guard down and be vulnerable and even cry about certain things and say “Hey youknow what i I needed help.” And the only way that I was going to sustain you know a life and not you know die at 53 yearsold from a heart attack or being overweight or alcoholism and just be miserable and alone Um is by by gettinghelp And so I like I I want to share my words so that maybe one other person cansay “Hey you know what this story sounds familiar to mine and I’m in the same situation and I need help.” Um so I’mgoing to be vulnerable and I’m going to reach out and tell somebody that I need help And then most importantly man isI’m going to accept that help That’s great man I love that so much I hope you keep doing it and I hope um it’ssomething um you really pursue within the organization because I mean you know how cops and first responders are Youneed to if you’re going to speak about it uh you need to have some credibility because that’s what we want We want tohear from somebody who’s been through it Yeah the the lady with the clipboard and the cardigan you know she’s not going to getthe same uh kind of interaction you know what I mean yeah And and and I I definitively believe at one point alittle over 10 years ago I was working undercover and I was I was buying heroin from the cartel and uh Well you got tocome back on the show man That’s that’s we settled that right now Yeah I got too drunk at uh and so did my my ex-wife atthe time and it was at a big country concert and I was acting like DetectiveSeesca and I was making demands and a deputy from that agency came up and hewas he was a dick He was a a boot but I uh responded um as a dick and I gotarrested They well they put they put my face um I had a big big old beard and Iwas actively working undercover at the time They put my the media got a hold of it and they put my face my name oh norank where I was working all over the all over the media man Um it’s yeah itwas pretty crazy And of course the t because my my wife was at the time was in the women’s bathroom throwing up So Iwas in holding her hair back and taking care of her and a security guard came in and said “Hey man This is a women’sbathroom You got to leave.” You know last year I could have said “Well I identify as a woman so I’m good to go.”But this was two this is 2013 so I couldn’t do that And so literally dudethe the media puts the the headline uh detective arrested for refusing to leave women’s restaurant Ohyeah So that shut down that huge case and man and it uh and it made me realizeum I I got to do something Yeah Yeah Well Well thank God you did Yeah manLiterally thank God I did So such an honor to have you on Steve I reallyappreciate you My my privilege brother My honor my privilege And and I I meant that Um I’d love to have you back on Itsounds like you got a lot to share And um you know we’ll as much as we can umyou know lift up warriors ascent we’ll do that too because it sounds like such an important important program man YeahI’d love to talk to some about some of the stuff I did in Afghanistan a lot Yeah I’m sure people would love to hearit Yeah I bet man It sounds fascinating All right brother Hey I’m like I said thank you so much for coming on I’mgonna do the outro to the show Can you hang on for just like two or three minutes absolutely sir Awesome The greatSteve Sebesco Wow Um really really fun interview Can’t wait to have him back Sounds like he’s got uh just uh you cantell just when he’s talking and just referencing other things I’m like whoa whoa those sounds like those are whole other stories So um can’t wait to havehim back Thank you for coming on Warriors Ascent The link will be in the show notes Check them out Support them They are supporting first respondersthat need help So it’s very important mission This is a time in the show where I thank the Patreon sponsors Excuse meSponsors sergeants Um if you if you really love the show you’d listen to a ton of the free content and you wannayou really want to support monetarily which I like you can do that um through the link in the show notes and you canchoose different levels But if you go sergeant or above you 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