Mutilation To Remove Demon, Gun to Face, 1st Domestic

this is things police see first and accounts with your host Steve GoldWelcome to the podcast that interviews active and retired police officers about their most intense bizarre and sometimeshumorous moments on the Jorb It is I Old Gingerface here with you as always guysThank you for being here Thank you for checking out the podcast If you’re if you’re new to the podcast uh I I suggestyou check out the back catalog There’s over 200 interviews with the men and women of law enforcement telling theirstories totally unedited how they live them Uh and it’s evergreen content It’s um it’s you can consume a lot of it Alot of people find it and they uh they binge listen which is which is great which which I like And also you know ifyou really really love the show on the p if you join the Patreon you’ll get um two cops in the news a month which ismore topical stuff you’ll get at least one uh if you don’t join But um that’s just a way to really show me some loveIf you’ve consumed a ton of the free content and you want to give me a couple shekels then uh you know you can do itthat way But uh today’s show very excited for it as always Um this guy’s got a great great resume and he’s alsoum got got a bunch of other stuff going on pretty pretty impressive He has uh served in patrol narcotics criminalinvestigations He’s been team team leader of multi-jurisdictional SWAT team He’s trained and qualified as a SWATsniper as well as in hostage rescue and high-risisk entry tactics Recently heserved for three years with US Marshals Regional Fugitive Task Force hunting the worst of the worst He’s working for asheriff’s office in the Birmingham Alabama area Without further ado let me bring on the great Stu Jones StuSteve how’s it going hey man Great to have you on the show brother Thank you I like your name Stu Jones Reminds me of like a 70s uh it’s like like a black 70ssinger or something you know i’ll take it That’s great man Yeah So I was sayingin the intro you have you have um uh a lot of stuff going on not only just being a cop so you got a full plate butI think it’s neat You’re an author and you’re you’re kind of an like a cop author like I’ve never had on before Youare writing like a lot of like like a melding a malgum of um science fictionfiction kind of mixed in with today’s hot topics Like I went on your your YouTube and uh you even made this likevideo for your for Omnim a book that’s coming out that’s like I was wishing it was like I’m man is this going on Netflix is this a show also um becauseit it looks sick like very uh Orwellian you know that those type of topics It’scrazy So for sure Have you always been a creative guy i mean because usually most cops and nothing wrong with it and theythey produce great books but they will do um war stories or their memoir orsomething like that but you’re kind of going a total yours is like like a lot more creative let’s say Yeah So I’vealways been a creative person and I think I hit a crossroads coming out of college whereuh I was having to decide whether I was going to move towards film making because I was doing a lot of short filmsat the time trying to interum and film festivals and stuff like that with all the free time you have in college anduh but then I was having to reconcile that with you know hey I need to paybills and yeah are you going to get a job have insurance and yeah all thesethings And so um I leaned toward the other side of my personality this needto see justice serve firsthand in my community and uh and you know tippedinto law enforcement instead So when I no longer we were talking about this youknow before we got going when I no longer had the ability to do um the filmthe short films anymore I turned to writing as a creative outlet Um and itturned out to be really cathartic for me as a young police officer exposed to allthe things young police officers are exposed to to have this way to pour this all the emotions and thethoughts and the horrors out onto the page and uh and have a way to sort ofexercise those demons Yeah that’s really cool man I mean police work is very verydynamic and it makes sense that you you could take those experiences and write fiction change the names and whateverand do a book but also it there’s the complexity of relationships and all thatYou I could totally see if you’re creative that way you could take those experiences and apply it to a futuristicthing or any any kind of story line Oh yeah Totally Oh yeah For sure Andusually it does I mean those all those little interactions that you have with victims with suspects with other copsyou know um you know you’ve heard over and over again all cops have heard thisthat you have front row seats to the greatest show on earth right and so you’re you know cops by nature arestudents of humanity I mean we we know people uh better than people knowthemselves sometimes And so um when you soak all that in as a creative personand then you go to create characters uh it it’s it really helps in creatingreally three-dimensional realistic characters in a story Absolutely I’ve thought that before in police work and Idon’t know how to describe this but I think you’ll understand Like have you ever met like clientele we meet thatlike are they share attributes that are so similar that it’s sometimes youthinking you’re like have I dealt with this guy before but it’s not It’s a totally different person But you’re like “You’re you are.” And I’m not I’m nottalking about race or body composition I’m talking about like the way they areIt even their manus how they speak You’re like “You are a certain type of person I can’t put my finger on.” Andand if you’re think if you’re creative like you are you could be like that could be a race of people That could be an alien race like this You know what Imean like I’ve I’ve thought about that before I can’t quite describe it but it’s like you’re dealing with like youalmost know what this type of person’s motives are what their uh MO is foreverything Um so I think that that fascinates me man I was actually really excited when I saw that um when we weresetting up to do the interview and I was like “All right cop war story book something like that.” And I starteddigging into it I’m like “Man this is way way different This is even like some of the characters are like steampunklooking like you know what I mean it’s it’s really cool man So so the funny thing about that is that I have peoplebugging me all the time about oh you should write police procedurals but you know right writedetective stories all this stuff Um all I can think is uh like that It’s it’sway too much like the job you know it’s like almost part of it for me isseparating from the job to some degree And even though I bring a lot of those experiences with me into the storyum everyday life is everyday life I can I can go out here and do that you know iwant to experience something different And so while I don’t write space operas and alien races and stuff like that toomuch uh a lot of my science fiction stuff tends to be much more grounded butit is dealing with what does the world look like in 30 years or 100 years or whatever So um and and taking thoseexperiences from my police career and kind of molding them into that Yeah it’s very cool man It is very um what we havegoing on now is is is spooky especially like the the 1984 type of stuff likethey’re you know you there’s that feeling that like that would never happen to us but like everybody always thought it would never happen to themand before you know it you know big brother and and the whole thing it’s um it is really it’s it’s we’re at like Ifeel you feel like we’re at the door of it you know what I mean a lot of times and like we push it back then it keepscoming back So um I can see how those books would be really pertinent to even just our our culture and the way thingsare going now The the more I read into it that like the the history of communism and fascism and all that thethe more you can see it right now and how like the it’s that whole that that that thing that’s as old as time likethe greater good but we’re doing this for you Like we’re we’re fing you Um itis it is a a very rich storyline and um very very um appropriate for for whatwe’re dealing with now So Stu let’s go back to when you’re um when you started pulling from this well a young officerJones Um can you tell us about your first hot call the first call you had where you really got your adrenalinegoing you know it’s it’s funny how and and I’msure you’ve had scores of folks on the show say the same thing but you know after a while further into your careerit all starts to blend together you know and the and the things seem to be it’s just another day of work It’s not it’syou know uh another death a another homicide another grizzly scene whatevercar wreck or whatever You know it tends to become just another day at workWhereas when you’re a rookie every new event is impressionable And so that’swhy a lot of people have those stories from their rookie years because it’s like it was you’re being shocked overand over again Um but one of the uh probably the first hotcall that really sticks in my brain uh was a burglary in progress And there’s you know it’s burglary in progress ispretty run-of-the-mill Um I was on training car and uh for some reason mytraining officer in phase one was letting me drive I don’t know why but we were a few weeks into it you know so I’dprobably been Yeah I I’d been on you know probably three weeks in into thejob at this point so brand new And um I’m driving and this burglar in progresscomes out and he’s like “Let’s go.” And so I kick it up lights and sirens allthat And I you know my heart’s going and um the information keeps coming out aswe’re going and filling in the gaps and start realizing that it’s not a it’s not just a bird We’re in progress It’s apotential uh home invasion kidnapping And so we go screaming up to this nicerarea of town nice neighborhood gated neighborhood find out that basically anaranged husband has tracked his wife and children down who are staying with her parents and he’s breached the housetrying to get a trying to get them And so we come screaming up and bail out andmy training officer’s like “Follow me.” I didn’t know what I was doing And I was you know totally lost Yeah So I gorunning up with him like bounding from tree to tree up through the front yard and we get their front doors open and acouple other you know veteran guys on the shift They make a move for the entrance We follow in behind them and weencounter the guy right in the doorway and you know he got butt stroked with a shotgun or something We you know he goesto the ground had a pistol on him and uh we get him in custody and I’m kind ofshell shocked and my training officer is like “Hey we we got to clear the rest of this house.” Like “Oh okay.” So we goclear through the rest of the house We find the wife and the two little girlsin a back bedroom where they barricaded themselves in Yeah We discovered laterthat he had been searching for something to break the door down with So um I Ihave every belief that if he had been able to get in there to them he probably would have killed them and then killedhimself I think that was the absolutely the intention Um so that that wasprobably the first one that was a real wakeup call Yeah that’s a good one man Absolutely What did you think about likewhen you went home for the shift that night were you like this is the real deal or were you excited by it or wereyou kind of like wow i was excited by it Um but it also felt kind of heavy youknow you have that kind of heaviness that sits on you and um but but I wasjazzed up by it I was like “Oh this is great.” You know like you know we saved people today you know Yeah Um you knowthat very well could have had a very different outcome if he’d killed his whole family you know So um which youknow there’s plenty of other calls like that you know where where it didn’t things didn’t work out We didn’t quotesave the day Yeah Um but uh but yeah that’s a good one Yeah I mean that’swhen you’re that new to it too it’s like you um it’s intimidating because you’re like how am I going to get to the pointwhere I make decisions that quick or you know what I mean like you’re like right man there’s no real dress rehearsals forthat You can do all the role playing you want police academy but when when you’re when you’re jazzed like when you’re whenyou’re you’re in your you know your pulses and neck and you are pumped umit’s hard to see that oh someday I will be that guy like I’ll be Yeah And and when you’re new and you’re on the joblike and you don’t know which way is up it’s like let me just follow let me follow the the lead of these vet theseveteran guys and because they know what they’re doing And you know that that’s how all of us learned you know was wasfollowing in the footsteps of the guys who knew what they were doing you know Yeah So absolutely Yeah Before I meanbefore they had all this fancy field training and all that it was just like the boots got broken in by the seniorguys and they decided when you got to do something you know Right Exactly YeahAnd hopefully Yeah Because that Yeah Because that would be you know 20 years ago now So um that that happened So yeahit was it was a little bit different You know the FTO program was much different thing back then than it than it is nowYeah Yeah When I first started the place I started at was looking at like all right we need to modernize We need toget like a like an a literal like sheet with checkboxes for these guys Like we can’t just do this anymore Um can’t justtoss them some car keys you know right And it is it’s overwhelming for for efor admin because they’re like oh my gosh we’re not this guy’s not going to be useful for us for like five six months in academy then three four monthsfield training like this is a real pain in the neck we just want these guys you know from their point of view that hitthe road you’re you’re shift coverage now right right for sure but yeah I think LA um my buddy Ken um he was LAcopper for over 20 years and I think there’s I think they ride with a guy or when even when he did it for like a yearit’s pretty it’s like really long Really long Yeah Yeah I mean and ours has gonemore that direction too It seems like it’s you know uh each phase is multiple weeks and thenyou’ve got checklists and you’ve got benchmarks and you’ve got all those things And then for for brand new peoplein there at some point So it’s going to uh it’s going to take the better part of a year to get through all of that Nowused to be you know and this was I came in I came in on the the the front end ofwhen the FTO thing was starting to get going but used to be they kicked you some car keys and we’re like “Hey thisis where you need to be driving around Go figure it out you know?” Right Yeah Go do some stops Yeah Yeah AbsolutelyDamn That’s a good That’s a good one brother Um Stu can you describe a strange the the strangest or mostbizarre thing you’ve dealt with yeah that that one’s easy Um soobviously lots of bizarre stuff over a 20 plus year career butum the strangest one that really kind of stuck with me I was doing a a stint ininvestigations and uh you know my department’s a midsize department andyou know when there’s a big uh when there’s a big homicide or something kind of all all the detectives end up kind ofpulling together resources and everybody’s kind of working on it And soum ended up catching this call came out you know person down all that We go outthere and uh this house so the front door’s open there’s blood out on thefront porch like spattered all over the place The blood trail leads into the house There’s blood spread all over thefloor The blood leads through the kitchen loops around comes back to the bedroom I mean it’s everywhere It lookslike it looks like they were slaughtering animals in this house right and so we find the uh the guy who’s downand he’s got a he’s got a hunting knife sticking out of the center of his chest right he’s down He’s like down on hisback you know knife sticking huge knife sticking out of the center of his chest And it’s like holy crap you knowlike homicide So we’re we’re doing all the stuff Scenes all cordoned off We’vegot evidence processing going all that stuff Um andwe’re we’re about partway through the initial investigation when I discover ajournal uh that belonged to the dead guy And Istart going through it and I’m chronicling basically a journey of distress that this kid had throughhigh school Never really fit in Trouble with his parents trouble with drugs allthis stuff He’s trying to find himself And uh turns out he went to Peruuh you know on this journey of self exploration and gets with a shaman downthere and I know y’all have heard of this but he drinks that Hayawasa tea andgoes on this like spiritual enlightenment journey as he’s druggedRight Well so he writes in his journal thatthat opened up a gateway in his mind to something as a Christian That sounds badright yeah Same So uh and so which is super creepy to begin with but then hehe keeps writing in the journal about how it’s it’s you know a pestilence andit’s come upon him and it won’t leave him alone and all this stuff And the last entry in the journal is himsaying “I have to cut the demon out.” And so he went to hacking his own chestopen with the knife while he’s walking around the house So it ended up being a suicide not a homicide Um but yeah he’sactually cutting himself open and in his in his own words because he had to cut the demon out of him And that thatalways was just tripped me out a little bit you know like it was like Yeah So bizarre Yeah That is freaky YeahI I had um I had a retired carper on here that um uses and kind of promotesusing Iawaska to heal veterans and first responders like for brain chemistry or II don’t know Um and it was really fascinating to hear him talk about how it had helped him Um but the more I readabout after I had a mind and looked into it I was like and and being a Christian I was like man I I can’t help but thinkthat could open you up to to not great things you know what I mean yeah Yeahfor sure Um kind of kind of freaky dude That is insane How long did it take likewere you did you literally get there and just pick the book up or were you guys looking around for a while trying to figure out no we’d been there forseveral hours I mean you know we’d been there uh you know the ETSs are processing the scene We were probably onscene four or five hours like just going through everything and talking to parents and you know getting all theinformation trying to figure out if he’d been with anybody all that kind of stuff just to see like cuz we it looked like ahomicide you know so um just trying to connect all the dotsand it wasn’t until I just I just picked this book I could tell it was a journal you knowjust picked it up and I went to looking at it was kind of open it was bookmarked to a certain page and I flipped it opento those final words and it was like “Oh my gosh.” You know so it was your handhair must been standing up on your neck reading that Yeah Yeah Yeah It was It was It was creepy for sure Damn Didanybody do he anybody in his life that knew what was going on his dad was pretty dialed into it And his dadbasically said “Hey he’s always been a troubled kid I’m not trying to act like he’s some you know perfect uh child.”But he went on to say “Ever since he went to Peru and had that spiritual journey with the shamanhe’s he’s never been the same Something happened to him.” Yeah that’s that’spretty ballsy too Going down there by yourself and taking some other country’s shaman’s drugs right i mean geez Rightman You must have been desperate Terrifying Yeah totally That is uh thatis a that’s a good one That is very very bizarre brother Damn Um Stu can you tellus about your most intense or terrifying call you’ve hadum you know there it’s funny like I said they all kind of blend together um aftera while and and when you have so many I guess critical incidents Um I waslaughing at a show on the radio the other day was saying “Do you know that the average person experiences one ortwo you know critical incidents that might cause post-traumatic stress?” AndI was kind of like chuckling at that like the average cop sees how many you know hundreds and hundreds and hundredsUm so which is probably why we’re all messed up But um no the themost the scariest situation was probably not the most wasprobably not the scariest situation in the moment Okay Uh but it it thisparticular situation haunted me for years and still does Um basically I was assigned to the USMarshals Gulf Coast Regional Fugitive Task Force and their office out of Birmingham And we we collaborated withother offices in the region Atlanta uh Tuscaloosa all the way down to Mobile orover to Mississippi Like we you know Louisiana like we we collaborated with all the other offices in the region andwould go you know hunt their bad ables if they needed help But we were so we were assisting down inTuscaloosa and um on this guy bad dudeattempted murder police officer Um multiple bodies on him andum we got him holed up We got him pinned down in a house Our tech guys were surethat he was there and uh so we we had a good perimeter and we went to wait himout for a while and we eventually got the call that was like “Hey go in and make sure he’s in there.” So we breachedand went in and took it real slow worked our way you know um handled as best wecould We had a pretty solid team Broke it down one room at a time and uh notfinding the guy not finding the guy And we go all the way through the structure And I and I know everybody’s been in asituation like this if you’ve done the job long enough You know when you it may just be an open door you know a burgl aalarm call or something right and you go in and you just like go through the motions I’m just going to clear this house you know a little complacent YeahA little complacent And then it’s like you actually find somebody in the house and you’re surprised to find somebody you know rightSo this was not like that But we were expecting to find the guy but room after room we’re not finding the guy Andso we get down to the last room and I’m like he’s got to be in here you know so I told my partner hey like you knowwe’re going to we’re going to flashbang this one We’re going to pull out all the bells and whistles So we hammer thislast room Boom We pop in catch our corners collapse everything’s clear check the closet nothing I’m like welldamn Where is the guy you know And everybody’s back Everybody’s back clearing at this point And just as kindof an afterthought and I don’t know why I was I got so complacent here Maybe it was just like I’d been way up and it’slike well he’s not here Maybe the tech guys were wrong is what my brain is you know And I got down on one knee andpulled up the bed skirt and I’m looking at his hand like this far away from my fixAnd I jumped up and I snatched the bed back and flung it against the wall and there he is curled up under the bed Andnext to his hand was a six shot revolver And uh we jumped on him and got himunder control And you know at the end of the day no shots were fired no big dealno big fireworks It wasn’t like nothing glamorous you know But to this day I’llhave nightmares where I pull that bed skirt up and I’m looking down the barrel of that revolver Yeah And it’s because Iknow if he’d wanted to shoot me in the face he could have done it Yeah I mean in police work we alwaysdeal with people and you never know But with this guy you knew It’s like looking for a viper You know what I mean likeyou know he this guy is definitely capable of killing you So I can see that would definitely bother me That’s crazyYou guys how many guys were there three or four on my team yeah like howmany guys jumped on him oh so it was me and my partner in the room at that time that jumped on him togetherUm and uh but we had probably six in the house So they all came running when whenthat went down So did he have anything to say afterwards like you’re lucky I didn’t shoot you or no he you know whathe was real He was real calm and and part of that is what upset me as well Hewas he almost had an air of like I let you get me Yeah You know he almost had aa little bit of an air of like yeah you guys got me but it’s only because I let you that you’re alive right now you knowright Yeah Totally unshaken those people I’ve only come come in contact with a few bad dudes like that but um that justyou know their hand is completely they’re like nothing for them It’s like they’re another at the office They’rejust they don’t have the adrenaline drop or they they probably are just lacking that empathy or that or whatever serialkillers have They kind sociopathic tendencies Yeah for sure Exactly Yeah UmI’ve talked about before in the show once but um one of them was a child uh groomer guy and he was like “Oh mygosh.” And I was fingerprinting him and he was looking at me and he’s like “I must disgust you.” And saying stuff likethat like “Is uh is it bother you to even like be near me?” And and uh you know just just real nonchalantconversation I’m like “Just shut the fuck.” Yeah Right Oh my gosh That’sprobably what he wanted was for you to to you know breach your ethical standards and beat the brakes off himthere in the booking area right yeah Yeah Probably Um but that always that little encounter always just what he wasup to and the way he behaved and the way he was able to hold a conversation talk with me like he was normal just oh givesme uh just knowing people like that are out there is just No kidding So freaking disturbing Um yeah dude the F fugitivetask force Um Steve Svesca uh Arizona umtrooper and worked for a few cities there and he was on the fugitive task force with the marshals and he said hisadvice to listeners was like if you can get on that team oh man get on it because it’s so freaking cool broCowboys and Indians I mean yeah you’re basically everything that a young copgets into policing to do I mean go get the bad guys and not folks who didn’t turn in their library books Like theseare the really bad ones who should have been off the street yesterday Yeah And so um the trouble the trouble with thatassignment is you know eventually you know if you’re like me if you’re luckyyour your agency will send you out there and forget about you If you’re like me my agency sent me out there for threeyears and then they’re like start jerking the chain like “Hey man remember where you came from?” Yeah And so it youknow when you got to come back from an assignment like that and then sit a deskor do something else it’s like it’s hard to it’s hard to reconcile Hey I justcompleted the best assignment of my career What am I going to do now yeah that’s really tough And I’m sureagencies think about that too because it’s like a it’s like a drug task force when a guy a department just gives an officer to a regional drug task forceand is like “See you later.” I mean a lot of these a lot of these departments fight for new for additional patrol andthen to give one away and then you have to pro you have to tell the city well this is for you know the greater good orthis is going to this is going to help our town We’re going to get forfeitures and you know it’s I I can see wherethese guys are coming from but to taste that and then get pulled back has got to be like it’s tough Yeah So the they mustthe marshals must do that just because they they just need the help They just not enough of them right and they needthe local knowledge Yeah man And the uh so it’s it’s multifaceted there Sobasically the the duesomes that are there the marshals the deputy marshalsthat are assigned to the task force as investigators they end up being the team leaders of the different teams Sothey’re kind of the quality control of the group but they need the local guys who are sworn in as special deputymarshals to do a lot of the leg work and to also have the state level in forsigning warrants on new charges or you know pursuing other state level thingsAnd so they kind of need you they have to have that collaboration because at the federal level there’s a lot of stuff they don’t enforce that needs to beenforced So um so it’s it’s really I mean th those task force guys uh are umyou know they get a lot of good training they get a lot of good exposure I mean thousands of high-risisk entries in justa few years you know so that’s cool man Yeah I have noticed that with special agents that have come on they have likewhen they go through theirmies there’s like one or two federal codes that it seems like that’s what they can do Imean it covers a lot of different stuff but I could see where there’d be tons of holes Um and and also having to dealtrying to fit things into a federal crime and dealing with US Attorney’s Office is just not tenable either YeahRight Total pain Um yeah that was a great way Great one man Thank you UmProforce Law Enforcement the best damn cop shop in the nation Whether you are purchasing for an entire agency or anindividual officer looking to buy firearms or duty gear these guys are the best in the biz With law enforcementexclusive pricing ProForce Law Enforcement is a place you want to be buying your guns and duty gear Theycarry all the top industry brands and the guys and gals that work there understand exactly what law enfor law enforcement officers need As a listenerof this show you get access to exclusive pricing on the gear you depend on every day Visit tps.proforceline.comproforceline.com for special deals on optics duty gear and tactical accessories that aren’t available anywhere else Um really really gooddeals on this The link for that will be in the show notes You can also visit their showroom in Prescott Arizona or store in Brea California to get hands-onwith the gear or shop nationwide at proforceline.com Their dedicated law enforcement support team is always readyat 1 800 367-58-55 Thank you Proforce Do you havea positive or heartwarming call that you went on no I’m not goingto say a call necessarily but uh so I’m I’m in the I guess you could sayI’m I’m starting basically the twilight of my career here with you know 20 plusyears and uh I I a few years ago got moved youknow once I promoted to sergeant and you know did some more time on night shift and kind of bounced around a little bitour sergeants and lieutenants get moved around a lot just for different exposure And soum I got moved to the school resource unit which for a guy like me Oh wowsounded like a Yeah felt like a death sentence You know it’s like I’m an action guy man Like I want to go runaround So to get put but they did it because of my tactical experience and all that And um I’m gonna be honest whenI went out there I I was had a little bit you know sour grapes over it And uh my lieutenant out there was a goodfriend of mine and he said “I’m going to tell you like this.” He said “This ismight be the one police assignment where you can go to work everyday and have more positive interactions with people than negative ones.” YeahBecause and and you start to see that like one the mission of of keeping kidssafe in schools is vital right right Uh and SRO’s get a lot of crap uh by therank and file the knuckle draggers on the street you know but but draggerslike Yeah But but it’s it’s a it’s an important mission still And so um andfrom a positive mindset like my mental health improved just by you know whenyou go to work and you’re like high-fiving fifth graders and playing basketball with you know junior highkids and stuff like that it’s like it’s kind of hard to have have a bad day you know like you have an opportunity topositively influence these kids who otherwise might have a negative view of the police you know and plus with what you your resume like you were a hardcharger I think I what I see school resource officers getting their chops busted is the one that like goes to theschool from day one and they and never leaves because then I mean a street level guy is never going to bust yourballs for that because he you’ve you’ve done the job I think it’s the people that kind of hide quote in school youknow what I mean because it I mean it it is a great for you it makes total sense Um and it is a it is a really reallygreat tool to get kids exposed to cops and kind of fix that cultural problemyou know For sure So in the school in particular are youguys is it a big enough school where there’s more than one of you well so we have it’s we handle all thecounty schools So that’s 15 schools Uh it’s big county So yeah um 15 schools SoI have you know I’m one of two sergeants and then we have a lieutenant over the unit So I manage the SRO at all those 15schools So I’m driving around all day long you know checking on them making sure they have what they need beans andbullets and then you know um shaking hands with administrators and makingsure that they you know the bridge building mission that we’re there for is being successful and all that stuff youknow So Oh that’s cool Yeah Um I for a while we had um when I was on theCapework and we our school res school resource officer was out um with an injury So whoever was in the sector forthe high school had to kind of fill in And it is it can be a very difficult jobcuz I caught a couple cases there that were like because you’re dealing withparents the school and kids of very some kids that are considered adults somekids that are minors and it gets very muddy very quick when you’re dealing with like kids that were dating whenthey were 16 nude pictures involved Oh yeah one now One is 18 and still has thepictures but this one’s still 17 Now it’s child porn The parents want charges The school wants you to do nothing youknow yeah Oh that’s every day It gets freaking frustrating It’s like oh mygosh what do you want me to do um so it it is a very like people think that it’s not a challenging job It it is becauseit’s people especially when the kids get to know you and trust you they they will tell you things youcannot ignore right and yeah and then you have the situations like I had oneof my folks at a uh intermediate school like fourth fifth grade age and and agrown child that that is on the autism spectrum threw a handful of rocks in theSRO’s face during a a tantrum which you know is like that person on the street’sgetting bounced you know but you have to run it through the filter of this kid’s on the autism spectrum we’ve got to behandle this appropriately So it’s and of course his blood was up He was like youknow so it’s hard to navigate some of those things you know Yeah absolutelyman That is a giant operation That’s a lot of lot of school resource officersMy goodness Um so really popular question on the show is advice to newpolice officers People a lot of people listen to the show uh are thinking about getting into the job They’re in backgrounds are about to start academyor they’re just they’re just taking the step of doing a ride along trying to figure out if this is the right thing for them What would you tell thesepeople looking into law enforcement you’ve got to be a you’ve got to be awhole human being to make it in this career Okay the copswho who fizzle out burn out become toxicuh or worst case scenario suicidal Uh those are people who are notable to separate who they are as a person from the job of police work Andso when things go bad with the job things go bad with them personallyAnd um that’s a that’s something that a lot of cops struggle with on the mentalhealth front Yeah And so um for me it’s twofold One you mentioned being aChristian I’m a Christian as well Um I personally don’t know how anybody uhmakes it through a career in law enforcement without Jesus That’s just my that’s my two cents Uh but it’s but butbeing able to reconcile early on hey I am not a Superman There’s only so much Ican do I’m going to do the best job I can do And when when I hang up my belt at the end of the day I’m going to knowI’ve done everything I could do And even if I couldn’t save everybody or I couldn’t get there in time or whatever Idid the best I could do And the rest is up to God to be able to let thatgo releases a weight from you that you can’t imagine right and so that that’sthat’s part of it And then the other part is being able to disconnect from the from being a police officer and be aregular human being because police officers are kind of twisted It’s just true right so you’ve got to be able tokind of separate from that job from the job on some level which for me like I Iput on the author hat right i go last weekend I went to a comic convention andset up my booth and sold books and hung out with nerds and it was great you knowAbsolutely And uh we talked books and science fiction stuff and I didn’t wear a gun I didn’t do police things Um solike separating from the job and having other outlets hobbies family whatever itis whether you’re coaching your kids little league team or you’re you know doing something you have something artistic or you like to woodwork orwhatever it is having something that’s not police related that makes you kind of like it’s what the humanizing thebadge mission is about you know letting helping people to understand there’s more to police We’re not we’re not robots in a uniform like there’s more tothis person than just the job right absolutely Um that would be it YeahWords of wisdom Thank you for that brother Yeah The humanizing the badge thing has gone way off the rails huhthere is some there’s some people doing stuff under humanizing the badge that is like That is true That is true There aresome real ones out there Um we all know who they are but they’re um I’m mostly talking about like the uh just the uhthe straightup dancing cops or the ladies doing their get ready with me No that’s not what I’m talking about ThreeNo I know you’re not I know you’re not like the three-inch nails and all that Um no no I mean that it with Mike thecop and officer Daniels and some other guys out there that kind of do it in that vein And then um that guy that doesuh I think he’s in Alabama The guy that does um all the black neighborhoods he’s uh really got a great way about himOfficer um Norman Officer Norman he’s he’s great He gets money People he’s sobig now People buy these people in these poor neighborhoods gifts and he gets to give them the gifts and likeLeticia needs some new sneakers for Gym Clash and it it’s that is really really awesome But it is uh I mean that’s thestuff we’re talking about That’s that’s really cool Um all right brother I want to talk about the um your writing in thebooks because and like I said before it’s fascinating to me that this is the style you’re in because it is reallycool And I noticed in the in the notes it said that um you write with somebodymaybe just on omnivolence that is on the other side of the aisle politically Yeah Yeah Is that so that is so what how doesthat function and and how do you guys get along it shouldn’t function It shouldn’t function at all In fact uh youknow I if you know by by normal social standardsum we shouldn’t be friends much less collaborators Uh but his name is GarethWorththington Um he is a Brit living inSwitzerland and um he is a bonafidescientist and um his his degree was in endocrinologycomparative endocrinology And so he’s um super smart guy but he’s he’spolitically left-leaning He’s um an atheist Um and yeah and and he’s youknow he’s like I said part of the scientific community um which can tend to be more liberal uh more left-leaningand so um but he’s a phenomenal dude He’s just a great guy We’re we’re aboutthe same age We we were influenced by a lot of the same pop culture sci-fi concepts and things like that And um wefound that in collaborating he brings real science to our science fiction and I bring kind ofthe gritty street cred action component and we mash that up for our brand And soum you’ve got a few of them there but uh Omni Violence Condition Black and It Takes Death to Reach a Star which is atwo book series Y all of those books were written together with him That’s really cool man So the so obviously he’sgot What does he think about like the the Orwellian stuff Is he on board with that is he agree with that kind of umplotline oh yeah for sure And um you know like I said we we were both influenced by a lotof the same the same things growing up And and even though this is the thething I really appreciate about Gareth is that even though I might be right leaning and he might be left leaninguh he’s he’s first and foremost um concerned with facts and evidence And sothat’s great Yeah Uh if if the facts and evidence point to something he’s not going to he’s not going to buck that Andso um that’s kind of where you know we come together on a lot of thingsThat’s awesome man Yeah The um so for this book Omni Violence the the latestone and there’ll be a link in the show notes and a link to your website and all that good stuff of courseUm it is a someone accepting part of the storyline is someone acceptingcryptocurrency and is capable of doing drone strikes on a target of your choosing Is that rightright So basically think of omnivolence the world of omnivolence is whatif Black Mirror and The Sopranos and 1984 and The Purge had some sort ofunholy love child That’s the world of omni violence So um there’s a politicalscientist Daniel uh Dudney and he had a he had this concept He came up with thisconcept of omnivolence um in which he basically said that the ratio of killers to killedis is falling exponentially Um so that bad actorsdon’t long any longer need armies for example to uh create chaos They don’tneed tons of guns They don’t need nuclear weapons um with the rate at which technology isprogressing and our inability to socially keep up with it Um he hebasically describes how a small group of malicious agents might uh engage in whathe calls omnivolence which is not states waring against each other It’s everyperson against every other person And so when you start to think about what thatactually means um you know you like the Raiders I likethe Bears we have a disagreement on social media about which team is better but I hate you and your opinion so muchthat not only do I want to cancel you I want to actually kill you We’re getting there in social media these days I knowSo bad So now what happens when that hate and that intolerance for one another intersects the technologicalability to actually carry it out that’s omnivolence So uh I hate you so much nowI arm a small quadcopter drone with a little bit of explosives and I send it through your living room window and blowup you know you and your whole family while you’re eating dinner right um totally totally doable too I if you goon DJI’s website that make all those drones like all these new features that you can lock it onto your body and itwill follow you while you’re mountain biking Like totally totally doable Terrifying Yeah So now let’s explodethat out to a much grander scale right um like a small group of of maliciousagents uh could get a small quad a small quadcopter few inches in diameter attacha one or two gram shaped charge to it and you know that you can order those from a drone manufacturer in China let’ssay and then you have AI work a pro uh work a program into it that’s analyzingthousands of photographs of the kind of things you want to target or the kind of people you want to target and considering that a 1 g shaped charge canpunch a hole in 9 mm of steel It’s reasonable to to believe you could bustpeople’s heads with that Right Right And so you know you pile uh 3 million ofthose things into a semi-tractor trailer and you drive three trucks up into NewYork City and you let them all go running that algorithm It doesn’t even have to be very effective Only five or10% of them have to hit the mark Think about the chaos that would ensue Yeah Right So it’s becoming more and morerealistic That sounds like science fiction It’s not If you look at what Ukraine has been doing and fightingRussia Yep Yeah I mean blowing up like those rogue drone strikes just flyingthem into buildings and blowing everybody up you know like it’s it’s coming and we are on the brink of omniviolence Yeah I mean look at the US government with our drones Oh these drones are 10 $10 million a piece Likeyeah crane’s like I get a $1,500 G DJI or I blow a tank up with it Right RightThat’s freaking crazy man Well it’s it it sounds absolutely fascinating Like I said I I will absolutely put a link touh all your stuff in the show notes Um Stu thank you so much for coming on brother Uh it was an absolute honor tohave you Really fun conversation Um I got your Instagram Steujones Fictionabove your head Uh any anywhere else people can get at you are you on X or any of thatyeah it’s Stuj Jonesfiction on all the uh social accounts and just uh steepfiction.comAwesome Perfect I will link whatever you want We can talk afterwards I can link whatever you want in the show notes Um thank you again I got to do the outro tothe show Can you hang on for just like three minutes absolutely Awesome The great Stu Jones ladies and gentlemen Umman super fun interview Books sound awesome I can definitely had guest guests on before and um not that I’m notor anything but I could see that being uh definitely see that being a Netflix series or some kind prime seriessomething like that Just a really great idea So thank you for him to for coming on God I can’t talk Um really fun Thisis a time in the show when I thank the Patreon sponsors If you really love theshow and you want to show me with your money which I like you can do that Link is in the show notes There’s a patrolmansergeant lieutenant captain levels If you go sergeant or above you will get a shout 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