Neo-Nazi W/Demon In His Testicles, Cruiser Rammed By Perp

this is things police see firstand accounts with your host Steve gold welcome to the podcast that interviews active and retired police officers about their most intense bizarre and sometimes humorous moments on the job I am Steve G I am old Ginger face I’m your host thank you for being here thank you for joining us thank you for the people that have binge listened uh to the whole uh catalog of these interviews and write me messages about it I truly appreciate that and uh thank you to people that bought um bought uh specifically an email from The Great Kyle Williams over in California bought a core Essentials belt because I was talking about the podcast um and they sent me a free belt it’s fantastic I’ve used them for about a year uh they don’t they don’t advertise on podcast so I just kind of mentioned it to um you know I think it’s a great belt and if you if you carry or just want a good rigid belt that’s micro adjustable it’s the way to go so people are buying them I said put a note 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still still have people joining I really really appreciate that guys that is what pays for everything for example I had to buy a new computer to keep up with uh the video software this year I had to buy a new camera uh I had to I have to pay monthly for the podcast hosting for the editing software uh for the website all that stuff um I’m at the point now in the podcast that it’s all it’s all paid for and then there is some left over for me to you know pay my bills so it is really really um appreciated so the link is in the show notes to the patreon you can go there to support uh I love that uh if not don’t worry about it if you can’t afford it right now I know times are tough and everybody’s kind of pinching their pennies including me um if you can’t do it no big deal the show’s going to remain free you’ll be able to get all the episodes on here I have played around with the idea of making um like patreon specific content to make it more enticing like an extra episode or a cops in the news like a live episode and just put it on patreon but but alas I have very little uh hours in the day that I can even get this done so um that’s why uh I haven’t done it but maybe I will if you guys write to me and you say that’s something you would like or that would entice you to to listen uh let me know I will definitely uh I’ll definitely consider it and probably would do it if people were interested so uh for with all that to say we have an excellent uh great transition there we have a great guest today from the again from the great state of Montana the uh last guest Mikey may they actually don’t know each other at all which I thought maybe they would because sometimes I get into an area of the country and get a start getting um people from that area that know each other that want to come on which is great uh by the way if you want to be a guest please please consider it if you have stories um we can if you’re active and you don’t want to uh you know have your name known and all that you can use a pseudonym we we can just say the state we don’t have to say your agency all that good stuff can be done to get you on if you’re retired even better because retired guys just don’t care and they uh they let it rip so um go to the website scroll down to be a guest or Steve at things.com you can just shoot me an email directly and we’ll get you scheduled anyways uh s years law enforcement in the great state of Montana He is a deputy sheriff at a smaller size agency and he is the great John Gatlin John what’s up Steve hey man uh I was hoping you were gonna talk right there was a small pause um Gatlin hell of a last name like the great Gatlin gun yes sir let me um see this okay it’s fixed now my green screen is all jacked up I don’t know why um John thank you for coming on like you said you don’t know the other guy from Montana but uh maybe you’ll become friends now yeah you guys are friends now yeah there you go you got a new buddy is that his real name congratulations yeah that is his real name Mike May that that is the man so born and raised in Montana yes sir I was born and raised in Southeastern Montana and moved to the current agency I’m at here about three or four years years ago okay and you started somewhere else though yeah I was next to the borders of South Dakota and Wyoming okay Big Sky country out there yep it’s a beautiful state yeah hell yeah that’s why you guys had had rifles way before the rest of us yeah when I first started we had a 308 223 and a shotgun no kidding yeah that’s awesome yeah because you roll up to uh you roll up to uh you know sovereign citiz Rancher type you got a two mile driveway where you can just have the crosshairs on your chest the whole time yeah yeah it’s it was nerve-wracking when I first started because you you were definitely the only one there the agency I started with there was only three of us wow how how is Radio communication out there do you guys use repeaters or is it on just line of sight like VHF stuff repeaters yeah we had like five different repeaters that we use oh wow did you guys get into dead spots like often or yeah yeah there’s still dead spots I bet there still is today even I haven’t worked there for several years now but I bet it’s still the same yeah I work in an area that has little mountains and it’s the same thing if you get into the the valley of or the mountain it’s bad and then if you go up the top over a road all of a sudden all your reception comes back and you’re you’re good to go but it’s gotten a lot better we got two years ago we got 800s 800 frequency radios and those are pretty much good almost everywhere there’s just a few spots that are dead um in Montana I want to ask you about uh the deputy sheriff setup is it the kind of state where if like smaller towns don’t have um they don’t want to put the money forward or they just don’t really see a reason to have like a chief and you know a few patrolmen they’ll just contract with the sheriffs and have you guys do it yeah that is correct both agencies I’ve worked for they didn’t have a police department the first agency I worked for they did for a short time they had they called it the town Marshall I like it City Limits there yeah I mean there was just one of them so it wasn’t really a police department they just called the town Marshall imagine that just one guy how annoying would that be dude that’s why there’s um where I work there are even smaller towns that still have like a chief of police and I think by Mass state law you have to have a a chief or some Authority or I I forget how the law is written but um yeah like those jobs pop open and then it’s like but if you’re the chief and you have like just part-time officers working for you or maybe like one full-time person um it’s like I don’t they never leave you alone like you know what I mean it’s like um because we have the state that will that offers coverage and we work really well with them but um you know the bigger things in towns like yeah suicide or death or really bad crash um they might be looking for a local response and it’s like always going to be used so you get um the the pay isn’t that great um and you don’t get all the perks of being a chief with people under you because it’s like yeah you’re also the guy we’re going to call for everything yep yep it doesn’t sound fun at all yeah yeah it doesn’t I mean if they I mean if they could pay if they were paying like say it was 150 Grand they’re like yeah we’ll give you like what we pay the Big City Chiefs and be like oh okay well I could probably I could deal with this but they’re not they’re like we can give you 60,000 and you need to work unlimited amount of time it’s like yeah I don’t think so so is the share oh go ahead that was part of the reason that I left that smaller Department with three guys you’re working a lot you’re working all the time I got burnt out I was tired of it yeah did they have overtime to pay you no they paid straight time oh really is that even like legal yeah yeah for it’s illegal for everybody but law enforcement in Montana that’s not cool at all man not very cool damn I got into law enforcement because my grandfather was the sheriff of the county that I grew up in my dad was raised in the sheriff’s office at that time it was a house and a jail Allin one one part of the house was the Sheriff’s Office where the jail was yeah then the other part was where they lived and my dad was raised through that all the way through high school oh dude I love it so you’re you’re like me I was raised by a cop too so it kind of was just like I tried other things I got the computer degree I tried to work in the insurance world and then I just ended up being a cop because it was just you know every night my dad would call home for supper in uniform and I’d be like can I see your gun you know what I mean I was like at a very young age I knew that’s what I wanted to do um I like the sheriff setup I like this you guys have the star right you have a star or a shield ours actually the one I got now looks like a Marshall’s badge so really just depends that’s cool I like the I like the old school Stars yeah I do too they’re they’re trying to um in Massachusetts the sheriffs have always just done the jails they sometimes they’ll do K9 support and they do road work details and stuff and once you go from Co to deputy sheriff you’re sworn in but you don’t they don’t Patrol you know they just just they just never have they just have always done corrections but recently because of the Nationwide problem uh they’re sending guys to the full-time like to the police academy and it’s creating a little bit of tension between police departments and sheriffs from like the smaller agencies that are like you know uh two to five guys are kind of like well if the sheriff starts patrolling then the town could just contract with them save some money turn our station into a a substation and then we’re we’re gone you know that’s what that’s the way it’s kind of thinking so there there’s kind of some push back to have the sheriffs hit the road here but it’s like that in the rest of the country sheriffs do the jails and also Patrol so it’s not it’s not unusual but mass is all about um colonial law and like we still have constables that like serve civil P paperwork and and they’re within the sheriffs but there’s also Town elected constables that can do the same thing it’s it’s very convoluted and I think I think in the end if a community wants to have a local police department they’ll just keep it because they want to they want to know the officers they’ll they’ll keep the department you know what I mean um I don’t see a bunch of these little towns running out to to you know dissemble their Police Department to to go with the sheriffs but you know who knows well well I wouldn’t worry about losing a job too much because there’s there’s plenty of open positions out there well that’s what I said I mean I I sympathize with with the argument I just laid out but also at the same time if you want to make me a sergeant at the sheriff’s department my salary is going to go up by about 15 grand so uh I’m not really going to be at any loss for the situation um so I wouldn’t complain too much but uh John can you take us back to uh your earlier days trolling to your first hot call or the first call that really got your uh adrenaline going yeah well it’s kind of like some of the oldtimers you got on here I was broken there wasn’t really a field training yeah hell yeah it was year I rode with the sheriff for about a week and then I rode with the UND sheriff for about a week and that week I was with the unders Sheriff we got a got a call Guy requesting an ambulance out in the middle of nowhere well the unders Sheriff was pretty wise he’d been there about 30 years and he’s thinking this guy just wants a ride into town he doesn’t need it he’s he’s saying he he was walking along County Road broke his leg so he’s like just send the new guy out and check it out he just wants ride into town so I and this is this this is a long way out of town on a dirt road it’s probably 45 miles oh my gosh damn yeah it was it was way out in the middle of nowhere they sent you a loan while on training still I didn’t even have a uniform yet yeah that’s great dude just a gun belt and jeans I didn’t have a cage in my patrol car wow that’s great so I yeah I have my jeans my gun and my badge and some handcuffs and I went out there checked it out run this guy luckily the week before that me and the sheriff were out running traffic and we’d gotten a guy with a warrant so I I had a good idea how that system worked and what all you had to do well I run this guy and he’s got several felony warrants out of California and Washington Dam so the dispatchers on the the other end she’s like do you need assistance do you need assistance I’m like H I think I got him I tell him he’s got some warrants and he’s like dang it I didn’t think they’d extradite but I got him cuffed up no problems at all got him put in my patrol car like say didn’t have really a cage so he was he was friendly though put him in the back seat there and uh and it wasn’t really scary I guess because I didn’t really know any better at the time but thinking back now I’m like boy that’s probably not how I would train my officers Yeah well yeah you were I mean at that point that is kind of scary because it’s I mean you’re way the hell out there there’s no way they’re getting to you if like you’re fighting for your life it’s just it’s just you and him that’s it no I was yeah but I was young I was pretty young I was pretty confident that I could handle myself uh and you just talk to guys differently when you’re by yourself yeah you’re pretty polite and you’re respectful and and for the most part if you’re respectful with them they’ll be respectful with you yeah you break up that silver tongue you know start yeah yeah lot yeah I know how that is absolutely um yeah that that is pretty crazy man uh why would this guy call the police it’s so people with warrants are the dumbest people like they’re the ones that go by you 30 mph over the speed limit and you’re like dude I never would even encountered you had you just not been an idiot so this guy is even worse where he just calls the police on himself and is that what he wanted a ride is was that what it was yeah yeah he didn’t broke leg it’s a you know false police report you know no injury what a jackass so when you when you arrest somebody that far far is your the setup for that place the um the lock up and booking was back in town y yep so they specifically a lot of our smaller counties don’t even have jails they subcontract with the neighboring jurisdiction or something but we have our own jail and our own dispatch there how how um so that’s you have them in custody and that’s a 40 5 minute ride with him to the jail yeah it’s it’s a yeah your brain’s hurting by the time you get there most of the time all that Wicked annoying small T small talk with the scumbag you’re like oh my gosh so sick of pretending to like this guy yeah well then you get to the jail and you’re the one that’s book them in yeah you live with them yeah yeah and you you guys can just drop them there though and leave no I’m the one booking him in really so you just have you book him and then you put him do you have to watch him in the cell uh no our dispatch watches them like through a camera yeah yeah everything’s live we got cameras everywhere did you guys have a courthouse hooked up to this building as well yeah that actually was a pretty good setup it was built in the 80s it was after my grandfather had retired they built an actual courthouse in the sheriff’s office Courthouse like the clerk and Records Treasures Office all that stuff was attached all one building yeah it was pretty nice set up that’s cool man I love those little on I I used to work with the guy from uh he was in a small place in New York and they had the the PD the law in the courtroom right there so they could walk him right from the PD into the courtroom and it was elected local judges so you know was like could be like Bob the Builder is the uh also the judge you know which has its own which has its own problems but dude did you hear about that agency I think it was in Arkansas that was using um it was a small Department it was like it was like a three-man department and the city was having financial problems and they got this new chief that said um hey I’m gonna I’m going to generate some Revenue telling the mayor I’m going to generate some Revenue um through C and enforcement and they were like all for it so he went out there he hired um two more buddies so now they have like five and he the the whole ethos of this department is hammer down no breaks so they start riding so and this town has like a mile and a quarter of a state road something like that going through town and that is their their Honeypot you know so they are nailing people the guy by the end of this whole thing they’re writing no breaks and they will arrest if they can and in Arkansas you can arrest for almost everything they are just arresting cuz when they arrest they can impound the car and then they had a deal with the guy that was just outside of town the tow company he would take their car and almost immediately auction it because they would rack up um they would try to write so many fines for the stop that it was thousands of dollars and then the person wouldn’t they were trying they were victimizing poorer people so they know they couldn’t get their car out so and they would go to the the the little the the courthouse next to the BD and the judge would um would enforce the fines and they couldn’t pay then the shop would sell their car and get the cash so people were like actually coming up with the money a day or two later a few people and they go to the the place and their car was gone and they were like where’s my car they’re like well we auctioned it we didn’t think you were going to be able to pay so anyway anyways the guy ends up this department I think goes to 15 guys 15 full-time cops the town has like 600 people 15 full-time cops uh a drug task force with canines and they are just ripping and stripping every car that goes like three miles an hour over the speed limit eventually this is how scary um a place like this that’s not being watched that closely can become people make jokes about small Town cops uh a small town cop can ruin your life and this these guys were destroying people and making huge amounts of money and the mayor was loved it until finally the District Attorney’s office got word of it from the complaints of the people’s cars and like everybody obviously was fired and indicted and it was a whole thing but um Cra Crazy story I’m thinking about doing it where I work I don’t know it could be they if they don’t catch you you can make a lot of I think the chief was making over 100 100,000 it was like it was insane but I don’t know why I got off I don’t know how somebody could work for a department like that that does not sound fun to me at all dude it’s crazy I found old Google images of it and they have their drug task force and it’s like two guys with ski Mas in their outer carriers with like a dog that’s like not a typical breed K9 it’s like some kind of mut I’m like oh my gosh these guys are terrifying um yeah so uh it’s a great story Google it everybody if you want to see it it’s really um it’s something you would think would happen in the south in like the’ 40s and it like just happened oh dude the other thing they did they went out to the highway they dug up the town boundary signs and made them and separated them further apart so they had more State Highway no joke um we need to make our jurisdiction a little bigger yeah we need we need more Highway uh totally insane all right John can you tell us about a strange or bizarre thing you dealt with yeah well I mean as most police officers we all deal with a lot of stranger bizarre things but oh yeah this what I have one that really sticks out in my mind this was I don’t remember what year this was maybe 2015 or 16 but I’d had a few years on and it was a slow day I don’t remember what day of the week it was but I was at the office just talking to the dispatcher and guy comes in to report a older style vehicle driving around and the door was open and there was a naked guy in the passenger seat I was like okay that probably Bears some investigating so right I’ll go check this out he’s like well it’s last scene near the Catholic Church like all right I go out try and find the vehicle and I find it and it’s parked at the Catholic church and I pull in behind it get out of my patrol guard approach the vehicle from the passenger side and this guy comes running out of the passenger side pulling on his penis and his balls yelling that there’s a demon in my balls he’s yelling there’s a demon in my balls there’s a demon in my balls I’m like what is going on gosh he’s a big guy he’s about 6 foot three and chisel ripped got a swasa on his left arm oh jeez head you know and I’m like oh boy this this could get Western so I’m like did they teach you how to do a an exorcism on someone’s nuts in Academy well no they didn’t but I thought I might know somebody that did so I call and call for backup from I think the sheriff would have been my backup so dispatch calls him and I call him direct because this guy’s pulling on his penis and his balls hard like this isn’t pretend and I feel like he’s gonna like pull him off oh my gosh oh my gosh and he keeps yelling strange things like I need some garlic or some ginger or whatever it was I need Archangel prayers he’s trying to talk to the preacher and is a is a preacher there no there’s nobody there I think it’s Saturday okay uh there’s nobody there and uh I call the sheriff direct and I tell him hey what this is what’s going on he’s like all right and after that his girlfriend’s there with him she’s the one driving he keeps yelling for Archangel prayers so I call an ambulance while I’m waiting I don’t want to go Hands On by myself so I’m just kind of trying to keep my distance and by time yeah and the whole time he’s hollering yelling about the demons and his balls and and at that time he goes up to the steps there’s like a concrete pad in the steps going up to the door of the church and he’s trying to get in there nobody’s there and the door’s locked but the preacher shows up when we’re there and he’s he’s like oh thank God the preacher’s here the preachers here and I asked the preacher with straight face hey do you know any Archangel prayers because I’m thinking if we can just maybe get him to settle down if just start doing some anything yeah and the preacher starts laughing and he says no well that caught the attention of the guy and he’s like is this funny you preacher is this funny to you I’m like oh boy he’s getting amped up now well he’s asking for holy water and I ask him can you just get me some holy water let’s just try and get him to calm down yeah well as the preacher going inside the door he has to squeak by him go inside and the it’s like the a light bulb goes off in this guy’s head he’s like oh I got an idea Alicia I got an idea you hold my ball I’ll keep the demon from going up in my stomach and the preacher can squirt the holy water up my [ _ ] and it’ll get the evil out oh my goodness the preacher was smarted you would have never came back see you later and the preacher looks at me and he’s like no no he’s like no I do so anyways anyways I call the sheriff because I’m like where’s my backup and dude the preacher couldn’t even go over him just do the sign of the cross and like say some Latin you know just pretend like what is this problem I I don’t know I I just don’t think he had a lot of experience with demons people’s balls I guess obviously he was probably terrified he’s probably like I need to get he’s praying himself in his head get me out of here yeah well I called the sheriff and he’s he’s like Oh I thought you were just kidding like I did not think this was real oh my come on I’m like I’m like no no this I’m dead serious this is a true story and he’s like all right so he shows up first thing he does gets out of the vehicle he’s got a little more experience than I do obviously and first thing he does is get out of the vehicle all right where’s the drugs at and his girlfriend’s like well we did take a hit before we left but all I got is this and she pulls out her pot and stuff and the sheriff’s like that’s that’s not it did not C anyways we get him loaded up in the ambulance and have to take him to a town we don’t have a hospital in our town so we have to take him 80 miles to the next town but I had ride in 80 miles John jeez yeah I had to ride in the ambulance with him all sh and the sheriff’s got to pick you up I wrote back in the ambulance oh okay yeah but I rode there the whole way he was just he he started to settle down a lot but he was like pointing out the Shadow and he’d be like see that demon there he’s looking at us I’m like oh boy yikes did now did they for foro him to the the stretcher CER how do you do you restrain him I don’t remember so he couldn’t pull on himself I might have cuffed him to the I don’t remember what we did honestly yeah I think he by the time we got him loaded up he was settled down enough that we didn’t need to I don’t remember for sure it was long ago I damn that’s crazy well I’m a Christian so I do believe in demons so I won’t I won’t uh totally rule that out possibly there was I don’t know if the demon was specifically in his balls but uh sounds like uh something was going on now what did you do with his girlfriend was the sheriff just cut her loose I think he arrested her for possession I think is pot still legal in uh Montana at that time it was illegal now it is but at that time it was illegal damn man that’s a good one brother that is like so outside the box of any kind of training you would get um for like how to deal with so like they couldn’t even like I say in this for this podcast you couldn’t make these stories up like you could not even like conceive that story to train somebody on it that’s insane yeah no I was after that I was like God I have the best job in the world there’s no way any other job you would ever see anything that crazy and one of the funny parts is is where that church is it’s it’s kitty corner from my brother’s house and he was just over there with his binoculars watching what we were doing and he could hear everything and he he called me later and he’s like what are you doing damn dude yeah that that’s a funny thing on this podcast we’ve actually had some wild stories from churches um and it it just must be when people are raised religious and then they you know obviously walk away or whatever and they have a major crisis they you know like like many people do they turn to God and they and if it’s bad enough they’re like I just got I have to go go to the church with this and then it’s you know then it’s exactly what you got there yeah there’s a lot of weird things that happen at churches damn man that’s uh that’s a good one brother I’m not gonna lie to you John that’s a good one that is totally bizarre I’m glad he didn’t actually um successfully yank it off in front of you that could have caused some PTSD for you yeah yeah that would have been pretty pretty rank yeah I heard um I don’t where I heard it uh recently it might have been Eric tan he was telling a story recently um he was a cop in Raleigh and he he has the failure to stop podcast but he was he had a story about um uh them going into a house for a guy that just got out of prison and he came in and found his wife with another guy she didn’t know he was getting out and uh this guy ended up when they showed up he was actually pulling the guy’s testicles off like he wouldn’t he wouldn’t let go of them I was like my KN you know your knees get weak even thinking about something like that it’s like totally totally I would imagine that would that would be bleeding pretty bad yeah that if I was that guy at that point it would be suicide by cop i’ just grab something and come be like just put me down man it’s all I got and it’s gone oh damn all right John um can you tell us about your most intense or terrifying call you’ve dealt with yeah I mean this one’s another one that’s pretty tough because as police officers we have several of these throughout our careers but one that sticks out in my mind the most is one that happened fairly recently after I got out of the academy and I wasn’t very on the job very long but uh the local gas station there called in a guy that was just acting odd he had suspicious behavor he’d go in there and he drank he drank like a full thing of orange juice and then puked it all out on floor he was just acting on yep so I I I went over there talked to him a little bit and uh wasn’t doing anything illegal but he was acting odd I didn’t know possibly he was high on drugs or didn’t know what was going on right and and I didn’t really get a name or anything he left there and like I said I was pretty new so I didn’t know what I should do or shouldn’t do so I called the sheriff at that time and I I asked him what I should do and he’s like well just come pick me up and we’ll we’ll just see what he’s going to do and so we kind of follow him and he goes to the the next store the grocery store and we’re watching him there and he buys another thing of orange juice and gets in his truck and he leaves and Sheriff’s like yeah this is bizarre behavior we’re going to follow them little ways and follow on the little ways out of town and he goes about 10 miles per hour over and the sheriff wants to identify him so he’s like all right let’s light him up so I go to light him up and he takes off on us so we get end up getting in a Pursuit about 40 some miles all the way to the next jurisdiction damn and the next we have we have the next jurisdiction on the radio and they they throw out some spike strips well the the guy that’s on duty at next jurisdiction this was his second day alone oh solo so he gets he gets the the the spike strips laid out but it’s not in a very good spot he only gets one tire well the sergeant there he he was out too and then he called his other two guys out because they were in their jurisdiction it wasn’t the County Seat but they had a detach a sheriff’s office Detachment in that little town there and there was four of them stationed in that small town and and he had all his guys out uh and he threw out spike strips he was just barely able to get him thrown out he literally physically threw his Spike strip in front of the tire and he got two with his a front and a back nice and so he’s got three we got three tires out on this truck and we’re just about to roll in this small town and there’s a basketball game going on in town so there’s a lot of people in town and one of the deputies says we need get this vehicle stopped before he rolls through town he’s still able to go about 50 with these three tires out so I decide the sheriff tells me you need to pass him and stop in front of him to get him stopped and obviously we all know that’s kind of a risk because we don’t know is he armed does he have a gun right what what’s his deal did he just murder somebody or we have no idea and so we end up passing him and that was the scary part was not knowing whether I was going to get shot in the back of the head or not yeah and and I get stopped in front of I try to slowly stop so that it’s not full force you know so I’m slowly trying to stop in front of him and he’s ramming my patrol car jeez I get I’m able to get it in park in between him ramming my vehicle and I get out and I got my pistol out of course and pointed at him and he reverses it and he turns towards me like he’s going to run me over and I I almost that was the closest I ever got into getting a shooting in was right there yeah and and the reason I didn’t shoot was because there was another deputy pinning him in behind him and I didn’t have a good backdrop he was back there somewhere so I didn’t smart and then there was another deputy that ran up and knocked the window out well it was a pretty intense situation and we’re trying to get to him while he’s going the other direction towards the passenger side and he’s reaching for something we’re not sure on the driver’s side what he’s reaching for well I hear my Sheriff yell he’s he’s reaching for his seat Bel he’s still buckled in so you know it’s such a high intense situation in he’s reaching for something at your hip we all know what we carry at our hip right and so luckily the sheriff was able to see he was trying to unbuckle a seat belt but then he was trying to go towards the passenger side and we’re reaching through the window and the sergeant he says uh did anybody try the door I REM distinctly remember him saying that and we’re like h no and it’s unlocked he just opens the door and we pull him out and get him cuffed up and uh yeah that was that was probably the most intense call early on that I can think of of course there’s been several after that there’s probably some before that too but a lot of them I don’t remember but that one sticks out because it was early on in my career and it’s one of the only Pursuits where I was primary on yeah that’s that’s nuts man did did um what was his deal what why was he running was he just High mentally ill mentally ill that’s a big that’s a big thing now isn’t it mentally I mean that that those call we have um we have clinicians now like the bigger agencies have them embedded and we have them like um there’s like an overtime shift for us we can take a like call CSO clinical Support options I think is the company and they um you get overtime pay and you drive around you know what other Town whatever towns have contracted in the county with them it’s all through a grant um you just respond to mental health issues throughout an 8 hour period but uh the fact that we even have to do that now is like is crazy you know it’s it’s there’s a lot of sick people out there yeah and like that deal that was a strange deal he was in jail for a little while in our jail and then we decided to con consolidate the charges and then transported him to that same neighboring jerse addiction and they decided well he’s got mental health issues and couple weeks later he’s he’s walking around yeah how did the sheriff feel about your car getting all dinged up oh he didn’t mind he’s the one that told me to do it so all right very good um and what do you guys have take-home cars yeah so what happens at that at that point did you just not have a take-home or was it still drivable no it was still drivable I still drove it heck it’s still got the same dents sounds like yeah sounds like a small agency thing um let me ask you about spike strips when the agency I to work with on Cape Cod they had we had spike strips from Stinger I think and if you spiked a vehicle they would send you a little scorpion pin you could wear in your uniform do they did they do that for you guys or is that still a thing yeah but you got to be the one that actually threw the spikes right one of those and I’ve never gotten one of those I’ve always been on the opposite end of pursuit I’ve never been the one to throw the spikes stps out right yeah um I always thought that was cool a guy I work with had the little pen he didn’t wear it or anything but he had it and I thought that was kind of neat that they uh they kind of yeah everybody everybody I work for has got one I ain’t got one they do that’s BS man you got to go spike a car well yeah well last stolen vehicle we got uh they they tried to set me up so I was be be the one to do it but turned out he cooperated so yeah with my luck I’d Spike their car and then all the people behind them and they’d be like yeah the department knows like four different cars new sets of tires great oh I’ve heard those stories before I know several Troopers that got their tires spiked yeah they I mean they work they they punch those holes in the tire that they’re like Hollow spikes and they go down they immediately flatten it’s like whoop see you later we have um the agency’s north Andi border Vermont in New Hampshire and it’s like well known these guys run down 91 and they run from like you know Hartford Connecticut all the way up into Vermont and they’re they’re just running drugs or they’re just career criminals but they know um it becomes difficult for Mass agencies in the other states because New England’s small the states are small like you can get out of state in a in a Pursuit so that’s they’ll they’ll Spike somebody or something and they’ll just be on on on their rims but they’re getting into Vermont you know so they’re like I’m almost there and if you know Vermont has all little agencies in the State Police so the chances of them getting somebody there before this guy ditches and gets picked up you know it’s they kind of like they’re headed for the finish line so they just keep freaking going freaking but I bet in Montana that I mean if you’re anywhere away from the border that that state is freaking big you’re you’re golden yeah well that guy that we chased I’m sure his idea was to get to the reservation because we were only a mile from the reservation at that time oh no kidding yeah that’s crazy then then then they deal with Tribal Police right yeah and in fact on that Pur Pursuit the the B one of the Bia agents arrived on scene was on scene what’s Bia mean Bureau of Indian Affairs so with them do you guys I assume you can call and get permission to enforce do do they give you permission or do they just say no don’t do anything till we get there no they would not want us to do anything the the Bia I don’t think would care that much it would be the the tribal council that would care oh really so they’re they’re pretty much it’s pretty much a no fly zone you can’t even have a mutual Aid agreement with them you can you can you can get cross deputized but it just depends on the reservation yeah that really interests me I’ve had guys on before talk about that to me that is fascinating to me how the tribal I forget which state it was but they were saying like some of the cops were like trained Police Academy guys and other guys were just like appointed Tribal Police and they had like no training they were almost like a constable type position but they had all the authority of the Tribal Police it was like wow they really just kind of make their own rules well you can have it’s it’s different because you can have your local Tribal Police but then also Bia Bia is a federal agency you could okay you could station a Bia agent in any reservation in the US I heard those Tribal Police jobs are like incredibly dangerous oh yeah I talked to he’s not in the Bia anymore but he was and in that small jurisdiction that same reservation you know they’re making 16 arrests a day oh my God and to be in Bia do you have to be um Native American or can you just be some white guy in there you can be white but you’re the way they do it is they look through the Native American applications before they look into the white yeah I can’t that like especially someone that looks like me just plopped in the middle hey I’m here to enforce all the laws on you it’s like uh this isn’t guy I talked to he was white and he didn’t have any issues uh with the people like I said it’s more the politics that get in the way than the actual people people you’re serving yeah they got to start a casino man that’s it’s all about the casino brother that’s where the money is when you’re a tribal member well in Montana you can gamble so casinos don’t do a lot of good reservations here it’s not like a big magnet for every buddy they they do it they still have casinos but it’s not as lucrative as if you were in a state where gambling wasn’t legal right yeah like Connecticut and mass mass has a few casinos now um I remember when I was Insurance Investigator I’ve said this before but I I remember investigating a girl who was at College like in San Francisco and she had her car stolen during the pandemic and there were some question marks about it but you know we always get their financial statements um and she was part of like I think the the pinga tribe maybe I think it was pachena anyways it was in Southern California I might just be saying pinga because I hear their ads all the time on podcast but um it was a big it was a big um tribe and I got her financial statements and they were paying her I think 20 or 25,000 a month salary she was like and it go it gets higher as you get older so she was only 18 and then investigation just fell apart because the card that got stolen was worth like eight grand I’m like well uh this is there’s no Financial motivation here because she’s rolling in money um and that’s just the way that’s the way that tribe worked they would um they would just pay each Tribal member and if you wanted a job you could also work there but you also just got a stien for being a tribe member which was incredible and they were not Cooperative especially when I was an insurance investigator I went and talked to their their um security and they were like I remember asking the guy uh any way I could get the video footage from the parking lot and he was like we don’t even give that stuff to federal agents I’m like okay thanks but you could tell he like really took a lot of like he really enjoyed telling me that like yeah we don’t even give it to the FBI get the hell out of here okay thanks for nothing we don’t care about your little Insurance claim um all right brother uh can you tell us a positive heartwarming situation or call you responded to so this was a challenging one always is to think of but one that I can think of and all my stories they’re all from my old agency not my current agency because I didn’t want to talk about my current agency very much but uh this one in particular was a a car accident and the call came out that there was a guy laying along the highway it was the middle of the night and it was snowing that night and so I go out to try and find this guy and I roll up and I got my Spotlight out and I find a car accident I found vehicle that rolled over into the ditch and cross the barb wire fence and nobody around I’m hollering and shut my vehicle off and I’m hollering I can’t find anybody and so I Patrol a little further down the highway and eventually I’m able to find this guy and I he’s probably going through some hypothermia shaking real bad and and I get him loaded in my patrol vehicle dii um call Highway Patrol to investigate the crash and end up getting him loaded up to take him to the hospital and anyways he looked me up a few weeks later and just thanked me for saving his life he’ uh sobered up and as far as I know now uh he’s still still sober so that was just one of those deals where I just happened to be the guy right place right time and it felt good to be thanked for I mean there’s been a lot of lot of positive that’s happened in my career but a lot of it just doesn’t stick out because the negative is more it just seems to stick with me more than the positive but I get thanked all the time I get I mean I get parent I’m really big into kids I I try like if a parent comes to me hey will you talk to this kid I’ll talk to him I’ll I’ll do whatever I can so there’s been a lot of parents that have thanked me for you know spending your time maybe it’s not necessarily a crime or something that police would typically get involved with but if I can inspire a change in the youth I’m going to try and I’ve had a lot of those types of positive encounters as well but that one sticks out of my mind because he actually took the time to look me up later on and thank me yeah that’s great yeah we absolutely need that sometimes little a little uh you know Pat in the back from the from the public rather than the the opposite um so Montana probably is relatively pro cop then yeah I would say so I mean it’s it’s pretty liberal too in the western side of the state um like some of those bigger towns like Boseman and Missoula the college towns but yeah for the most part in eastern Montana it’s pretty yeah that’s good yeah I always say that mass is a weird State like that where it’s like a very liberal state but they do want Law and Order like the Liberals here like are no one’s Police Department’s getting like defunded you know what I mean we they increase our budgets and they want police they want Law and Order um there’s some those little pockets where they have done some really stupid stuff but for the most part um Massachusetts seems to have its headon right with that stuff they do little laws and stuff to or they try to get stuff to tweak us to make our job harder but um they want their property and lives protected and they know yeah they know the police are the way to do it you know social workers with Cardigans and clipboards is not the way to uh you know keep yourself safe yeah I would say when we get hammered usually it’s because we’re not doing enough not because we’re not you know they want us to do more go harder that’s great yeah that’s great yeah yeah that Montana just kind of feels like that I don’t know anything about it but it just seems like I pict Cowboys maror man six shooters you guys drinking at the parking lot at the PD after work shooting your guns at the Moon stuff like that I wish um can you now you work at the agenc you work at now sounds like it’s not um it’s a little bit more formal formalized a little bigger um can you can you still wear jeans like an outer carrier or is that just something the sheriff does no we we have a specific uniform that we have to wear the last the last agency I worked at we wore jeans well the first sheriff under the first sheriff I worked for we wore jeans and second Sheriff we switched to Tactical gotta you guys dressed pretty comfy where you are now outer carriers tactical pants stuff like that yeah outer carriers with the Tactical pants Side Pockets so we can carry all our crap right yeah it’s so much more comfortable isn’t it I mean there’s some agencies around me that um are kind of fighting that and they are wearing you know tucked in shirts with the belts and I mean I won’t deny that looks good like it looks good like a nice traditional police uniform but um once you go outer carrier in like the I call them like pajama pants like you know the whatever like blow or XR whatever um it’s just like literally my body doesn’t ache the same way it used to like you know what I mean like the gun belt around your waist lower back my hips I remember going on K9 tracks with the um with the full gum belt on and got this excruciating pain I’d never even felt before my hip flexors were like were shot at the end of it I’m like what why did what is that what muscle is that and so I obviously looked into it my hip flexors were shot and that hurt for like a week or two weeks you know but when you have it I mean the military has been carrying stuff up here for a reason they they don’t want to destroy the troops they know how to make people bodies last so and I but I get it it does look like we’re about to you know um you know helicopter into fuia or something sometimes to some people they’re kind of like this is a little bit extreme yeah when I first started I was wearing an interior and had a you know just a regular shirt but we wore jeans we were pretty pretty country looking cops for sure awesome in fact when you ever watch TV show longm no I’ve heard of it though so when I went through the Academy I uh we were doing a domestic violence scenario and my guy they were trying to teach us you know scene safety and whatnot and they said this one wasn’t going to be handson it was the first scenario yep and I’m like okay well they tried to I told the guy he was under arrest but I wasn’t between him and the door so to teach me you know you need to be a little smarter he takes off running and he goes down the steps outside well I jump from the top of the platform all the way down and tackled him and ever since then you know because I had my jeans and stuff my my nickname was longm that’s awesome oh that’s awesome you sounds like you’re pretty going going pretty hard in training you were probably all pumped up oh yeah I was all I was all pumped up you know I was nervous yeah I was nervous R everything you do when you’re young and in the academy they’re judging you yeah dude I remember that was um we have a thing at the end of Academy they like wait to the very end and it’s like the most critical part called AP applied Patrol procedures and that’s when they you know you conduct a vehicle stop under scrutiny you do a felony exit felony stop under scrutiny uh you cuff people up you do field sobriety like the whole thing and it is so fraking stressful because they are literally there’s a guy with a clipboard being like Oh yeah you know and then I think they um I think you could there was so many elements you had to complete and you could fail like one um and then get remedial but if you failed two or three you got one more chance to do it all over again and just the idea that like you could end up with like this is your last chance that was like it’s terrifying man you dedicate your whole life to this like you know for me it was a 21 we Police Academy you’re at the end to think that um you could blow it on that day it’s just it’s horrible yeah yeah the academy was stressful but I had a lot of fun there and I met a lot of good guys guys that I still talk to like I’m going to a training somewhere else and I see them there and I still talk to him I had a lot of fun at the Academy but you’re right it was stressful I was like those scenarios and tests and stuff I bombed my DUI my field ciety test scenario yeah completely bombed it I knew I did though and uh the the highway patrolman that was doing the training it’s like you bombed it but at least you owned it yeah try again that’s another really fun part about Police Academy is when for us I don’t know how you guys do it every state does different but we got to bring a friend or family member in and get them drunk and like they sign a waiver and then they get to sit in a room and joke around with you know the the the senior staff instructors they’re feeding them beers and they they make them blow every um half an hour to see to get them where they want them um so I I brought a buddy you know and it was it’s just fun that you your bud your buddies now are in Police Academy with you the unfun part is you are still like a worm you know so it’s like you can’t like really joke around your buddy’s half in the bag you know bombing field surpris but that was cool and then they then they made a sign at the end of the day um that we would be responsible for them until they were sober and my buddy was like yeah dropped me off in my apartment I’m like uh what are you gonna do he’s like I’m gonna probably keep drinking I’m like oh geez listen don’t get like an oui tonight or DUI as you guys say or get in a fight because I feel like uh my staff instructors will not appreciate that you guys do the same thing you bring people in well they we don’t get to do our buddies that would be even more fun but they did do a wet lab I think is what they call it yeah they just they just uh I think they just gave him vodka different amounts and then we’ just go rotate through and do ssts on each individual and they were all impaired at different amounts oh interesting we had one guy in our class said A friend brought in um big guy like owned a gym was into like MMA stuff like that um and he told us like he’s like I’m I do not um nothing works on me and the staff instructors are like well hgm will work because it works on everybody and he’s like doesn’t really work I’ve done this before and they’re like all right so they got him up to like a 0.1 and sure enough not he he aced all the field sobriety the physical stuff and his eyes were okay it was bizarre and they yeah and they said this is like a uh cuz for me for an oui um I put there’s a big percentage of my decision to arrest for impairment goes to hgn because it just frakin works every if somebody’s eyes have nagas at prior 45 onset um they’re a 0.1 or they’re drunk it just it just works like if you’re like if you do the field sobriety and the person’s athletic and coordinated sometimes they can get away and then you do the hgn and you’re like ah nope you’re you’re Hammer yeah I I agree hgn is is the test when it comes to SST you know what the bummer about that for us is not admissible in court unless a doctor testifies to it yeah that’s the way it is here too I can testify to what I saw but I can’t testify to hgn we have to have a Dr yep yep we can’t do HDM and you can’t even you cannot mention um the portable breathalizer if you mention it and It’s Tricky too cuz I had a sergeant that got bound up on this he had like a a contentious cross examination and then um they were asking them them what did you do what was next what was next and you know he did four field SRI or uh they call them um I got to stop saying test because I I was just told by the District Attorney’s office to stop putting test in because it’s assessments so um he did his assessments and they said what assessment was then what did you do and he said said the PBT and the judge was like whoa whoa whoa what are you doing right right on the stand the judge is like you know Sergeant you should know better we might have to retry this we might have to throw this case out and it was like so embar but he was caught up in the moment because the guy’s like what happened next because you almost have to lie if he’s saying what happened next and you skip a whole thing it’s like you’re lying to the jury because yeah you’re saying it didn’t happen so this guy was a very honest guy and he said it and then actually I believe I think the Judge talked to him afterwards and apologized because it was like a admonishing a cop on the sand is a little bit uh low I think it’s low class like it’s unless it’s a huge especially in that instance right right like he’s just saying what happened right that’s the truth right yeah he’s just just an oversight you know yeah it’s tough man when they tell you like hey there’s um in pre-trial they’ve decided that you can’t say this word or you can’t say this you can’t phrase it like that that just makes it even more stressful when you’re on the stand oh yeah because I can’t say that um so whatever I don’t go to it’s crazy to me how small of a picture we get to tell the jury yeah you know and how big of a picture we see compared to that yeah I usually like for mine I added more more more assessments because I had one when I was very young copper and oui and I just did the ones they show you in Academy um and they don’t limit what you can do but they can cut you down and be like well did you learn that in Academy like no but it’s you know counting backwards you should be able to do it you know stuff like that but um so they they put you they give us four four standard field uh assessments and um you know it’s a nine step walking turn one leg stand hgn and the PBT those are the certified ones they teach they immediately throw out hgn and they throw out PBT so now you have the two you can even talk about and if they did like mildly okay and they didn’t blow the breath lizer you look like a frakin Nazi to the jury if the if the defense attorney is any good so I always throw more in now they can they can tell the jury that these are not standardized or these are not what they’re taught all they want the jury knows you should be able to count backwards you should bail to say the alphabet you know what I mean so I just start I started doing that after I got made made to look like a fool you know but yeah we could go on and on about the the injustices we suffer in court oh yeah brother um DUIs are the worst too yeah they are it’s it’s way they’re way too complex and there’s way too much paperwork involved um for such a simple crime yeah it’s like yeah it’s so simple you’re drunk you shouldn’t be driving right me and my dad were just talking about this last night my dad was a cover for 32 years and we I was saying like Dad back in the day like he started I think like the late 70s and he was like he was like yeah it was like the report was like swerving drunk arrested and then that that was pretty much it and back then they had the dial drunk so the breathalyzer like you could actually like like the it could be manipulated like it wasn’t like certified the right way so that was like thrown out but yeah dude it it’s I I think they’ve made the penalty so high for oui now now when you go to when you go to test fight it’s like a it’s like a federal fence they’re like these people bringing the top attorneys just to beat it oh yeah I mean it’s I’ve testified in a homicide trial and DUIs are far worse they’re way way harder on you how dare you um all right brother one more question I’ve had you here for almost an hour I appreciate that but um can you give advice to new police officers people thinking about coming on the job or people in backgrounds or just getting into the profession yeah um it it’s a tough job especially right now I would say that we really need police officers everywhere throughout the US I’m sure Montana’s no different um we I mean everywhere you look there’s an open position yeah so right now is the time to get into law enforcement if you want to get into it when I started I mean it was hard to get in yeah there’s applicants all over the place but now now uh we need police officers more than ever we need people who are moral want to do the right thing um I feel like for me I was meant for this job like this is I’ve wanted to be a cop my whole life I grew up listening to stories my dad would tell me and the things my grandfather did who was legendary in uh his part of the country as being a peace officer um there I think it’s a very honorable profession absolutely and uh we just really need police officers but I would say that if you want to get into law enforcement um start planning it out young like when you’re in high school maybe go to the military do something to set that that stage for being in law enforcement even if you want to change your mind later on it’s still good experience to have um but I wish i’ had gone into the military and gone that route I didn’t um I would say that that would be a good for one it would buy you some time time for something to do before you turn yeah mature up a little bit Yeah mature up see the world um meet different people learn different cultures um but I would say also that there’s a lot of agencies looking for help so you can kind of shop around and find the one that fits you best you don’t have to go just anywhere um find an area I would not go to a department where they don’t appreciate law enforcement there’s too many jobs out there to do that find something where you’re going to be appreciated uh where they’re going to respect you uh they recognize the need to have you and they’re not going to just play politics yeah yeah absolutely if you have right now like you said the world is your oyster you if you’re a good candidate you can pick where you go police work can be challenging enough why have your community against you in in the town government I mean it’s a no-brainer yeah yeah these I don’t know these these urban areas that are having such a time I don’t know how they still have cops at all honestly I don’t yeah I I really think it’s um I think it’s a mixture of guys that have just been there for so they have so much vacation they have so much their benefits have builtup that they’re just riding it out because they said retirements are way up um and they’re getting on the back on the front end they’re just getting people that don’t know any better and they’re leaving after 6 months they’re doing the job and they’re like this is as bad as I thought it would be and I’m I’m I’m out of here I’m hoping I’m hoping enough cops go to the pro police agencies and people that take care of the cops that the cities fall far enough that they go okay PM the pendulum’s got to swing because we need coppers and it it kind of you know it kind of writes the ship a little bit yeah I would say you know like I said it’s a tough job it can be scary and I don’t care whether you’re from a small agency or a large agency a lot of people think that it might be Mayberry in this onean department somewhere but it’s not I can guarantee you that that officer has dealt with some [ _ ] like absolutely I mean the last agency I worked for like I said there was only three of us there and you know I I had uh I had some things happened where it was pretty darn scary um one particular time that I can remember the other thing is I’d say is recognize that you’re serving the people and you’re there for the people even if you have to arrest that person that day the next day you might have to see them at b game or something um and an example for that is when you go to a a bar in a small place you want people there to like you want the majority to like you have your back yeah and I’ll as an example of that that last agency I worked for I went there because there was a guy that was drunk and belligerent and was refusing to leave the bar and I went down there and uh after talking to him for a while and him coming in and the bartender said I want him to leave and I told him to leave and he wasn’t listening so I told him very unpleasantly that he needed to leave and then I went to arrest him and I ended up getting in a knockdown drag out with him and I was the only officer on I was the only one there and it was just me and him and I was able to get control of him but as we all know as police officers gaining control is one thing trying to handcuff them is another yeah um but I had a lot of friends in that bar and a lot of people that had my back and they assisted me with that arrest and I was able to gain control of him and get him handcuffed because the people had my back and they believed in what we were doing and what we stood for so I would say that re remember that you’re there for the people you’re there for your community um it’s not just fun and games this stuff matters and when you arrest somebody you’re taking their rights away and that’s B deal yeah 100% totally agree you mean those guys at the bar didn’t take just take out their cell phones and start mocking you they helped you wow dude nothing nothing is more heartbreaking to me and I can’t even watch them all the way through and I actually don’t watch a lot of them when they come up in my feed the videos of these city cops struggling with the suspect and people standing around mocking them or even just indifferently recording them it’s like a lot of of them a lot of these suspects are not armed they’re just crazy and you could easily especially and I’m talking to men I understand women not wanting to get involved I’m talking to Men Who able-bodied young men who stand there and do nothing yeah it makes me want to puke it’s like and sometimes it’s a female officer getting her ass handed to her by a dude it’s like you can really stand there and watch a woman struggle like this and not help what kind of lowlife piece of garbage are you what kind of people are we raising here totally insane dude I I avoid the cities like the plague now I I I used to live in LA and now when I go to cities my skin crawls I don’t like them I don’t like it’s so it’s like such a typical cop thing but I don’t I’m not a huge fan of like Humanity piled together I think it brings out the worst in people I don’t I don’t like groups of people that I can’t identify threats in you don’t know who’s you know know who’s bad who’s not what’s this guy want why is he trying to talk to me while I’m pumping gas all these people I want nothing to do with them I couldn’t be happy you’re living in a remote area you know what I mean yeah yeah no I agree it’s it’s tough these urban areas it’s just I yeah there was not one video that instant the only video of that instant was my body cam right well God bless those guys man that’s the way to do it John um absolute pleasure honored to have you on man thank you for coming on I’m going to I’m going to close the show out do you have I’m I’m suspecting you don’t but do you have anything people um in case people want to reach out to you or ask you a question or any social media anything like that no I don’t understood I figured all right brother let me um do you have like just two minutes I’ll do the outro and be back with you yep you bet all right brother thank you the great John Gatlin uh more fantastic stories from Montana guys honored to have them on really really fun one thank you everybody for listening thank you for to to the patreon sergeants those are the folks that keep the lights on by donating just picked up another one uh yesterday I’m very grateful for that and uh who I’m talking about is Jessica King everybody the great Jason La Bentley Barnett Zachary pleet Sheriff Ron oifer Andy Adam McMahon the Great Clark lauff Nancy Hammond everybody Zack Haney ladies and gentlemen the great Brad Thompson Kyle Roberts Jace Crow Christian the great Elliot syes the admirable Dave Elman Richard tols keep on trucking brother be safe out there’s Doug and Kelly Newman love you guys he at church Dan Carlson everybody check him out Burly boards Scott young the great Thomas Connell Dennis 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