In this episode Steve talks to retired State Parole Agent Miguel Lopez. Miguel started his career in the jails and ended up on the fugitive apprehension team. Miguel has had some intense experiences including being shot in the face while searching for a bad guy.
2:45 Guards Slashed
15:40 Feces Everywhere
this is things police see first-handaccounts with your oast Steve goldhey guys welcome to episode number 3 inthis episode I interview retiredCalifornia parole agent Miguel LopezMcGill went from state prison guard toparole agent to ending up on a fugitiveapprehension team for the state somegreat stories very interesting interviewI learned a lot during this interview Ididn’t know too much about this branchof law enforcement very cool stuff Ithink you guys gonna really love it Iwant to say thank you to everybody who’sbeen listening to the podcast anddownloading and everybody who left ourrating in a review that’s a huge help ifyou haven’t done that and you enjoy thepodcast please go ahead and subscriberate and then leave a written reviewthat is so awesome if you can do thatreally appreciate it if you’re a lawenforcement officer and you want to geta hold of the podcast or you want to geta hold of me and maybe even come on theshow or if you just have some commentsor anything you want to add or anybodyreally dump to be in law enforcement youcan anybody can write to this email andask me a question it’s things police seeat gmail.com so that’s things please seeat gmail.com go ahead and write to methere without further ado here’s myinterview with retired parole agentMiguel Lopez how you doing Miguel I’mdoing great excellent you work for thestate for how long 13 yearsI’m excited to you know for thisinterview because I don’t I don’t haveso much knowledge about what goes onwith parole I know I work with them alittle bit back in Massachusetts when Iwas a cop there and you were part of ateam that I got I got to see theMassachusetts counterpart in action andit was they were pretty badass like theywere if we had a guy in town whoviolated parole and the state wanted himback they would send this certain groupof guys to apprehend him and it was itwas nice to have them come and work withus cuz these guys it was their specialtyand it’s kind of like it’s almost likelike a state like Bounty Hunter rightyeah very similar to that so it’s kindof a it’s a really cool position in lawenforcementso I’m excited to hear what it was likefor you now you you started as a prisonguard right yes start as a prison guardcorrectional officer in a Lancasterstate prison and oh to inlaying Custer’skind of out in the of the desert yeahyes in Lancaster California tell us thecuff when you say prison Lancaster yeahit’s nothing much okay and McGill canyou tell us about the first call or Iwouldn’t say call but our first responseyou had while working in the prison thatreally got your your heart going reallygave you like a a bit of an adrenalinedump what was that experience sure surevividly I was five weeks into thedepartment brand-new correctionalofficer and I was working a housing unitwhere I am I was responsible for openingclosing all the doors about 150 cellscell doors all the inmates along withopening the doors for all the staffcoming in and out of the building andit’s a gun control position so it’s anelevated position you have mini-14 andyou had a 38 revolver this had revolverseven in the 2000s yeah yeah man this isa speed loaders and everything yeah Wowokay it was prison my building had justgot back from what was it oh they wereactually just leaving and they went tothe chow hall to have their breakfastearly this is probably on 7:00 in themorning and everybody’s even and prettymuch State Building is now empty anotherbuilding is is not walking and there andall those inmates are walking on thesame yard another building like anadjacent building is now walking otherinmates to the yard through the yard tothe cafeteria and I hear like a loudalarm which is the alarm for there’s anincident and the staff are the ones whosound us alarm so something happened towhere it triggered the alarmstaff saw something they hit the alarmfor the for the yard to go down and whenI say the yard goes down it means everyinmate knows that whenever that alarmgoes off they have to hit the groundthey have to lay down oh really there’sa there’s an incident yeah and then thatmeans that now you have correctionalofficers now we’re running somewherewherever that alarm is there’s a fightthere’s an assault on staff whatever itis they have to get down because now yougot staff running and you don’t want toif you see an image standing you assumethat that that individual is notcomplying and then force can be usedagainst that person but anyway how longago how often would you say this alarmgoes off oh man on a daily basis I wouldsay in an eight-hour shift you’reprobably gonna hear about two to threeWow okay some of those can be falsealarms some of them’s going to berighteous alarms assault against our ownstaff or or other inmates non-complianceyou name it fight breaks out on the yardI mean just everything everything so theadjacent building there inmates arewalking to the yard and two of two ofthese particular inmates ended upassaulting two staff members that wereon the yard and these two inmates bothof them had your makeshift weapons theyhad like pens or some kind of sharpdevice that they sharpened some devicesome hard plastic they sharpened into apoint and then the purse alting staffyeah they got they got two staff memberspretty righteously they got them both inthe head and it’s kind of scratched heryou know sliced her your head a littlebit and a bunch of blood from theseofficers was dripping down so well mysituation was yeah I was in the adjacentbuilding and I hear I hear the alarm gooff and at that point I at that point Ihad nobody in the building but I stillhad my mini-14 on a sling so as I go Ihear the alarm I run back to the backwindow where I can now see the guard andI can provide them coverage I see thatthese guys are they pretty much justfinished with the tussle with theseofficers because it was quick they justtheygoing up to the officers cut them up alittle bit assaulted him in the face thehead and then they comply they got downand now is this so by the time I waslike what I say what does the engagementrules for prisoners and firearms likewhen can you shoot someone it’sdifferent in a prison right there’s nowarning shot there is you have to seethat clear and present danger that greatgreat body great bodily injury can cancan result from you you know what youwitnessing ok so it’s it’s pretty it’spretty much I think it’s a basic youknow standard use of force proceduresthat’s established nationwide so youcan’t just you know came to shootprisoners like willy-nilly it’s still ause of force like you have to have thatthat reasoningabsolutely absolutely that’s definitelyscrutinized we have our own internalinvestigation unit that reviewseverything oh yeah everything is done ingreat detail so yeah you can’t we can’tjust go out there shooting I just havethis thing in my head where I thinksomebody told me along the way in mycareer that you could just shoot aprisoner if he was running away and Idon’t know if that be true or not butyou know we you know in the state ofCalifornia it is true if they’reescaping okay that’s where the problemyeah yeah they’re escaping then you youyou are authorized to use that deadlyforce because the threat is the threatis that that individual is running intointo the public Ryan I mean who knowswhere he’s gonna go he presents a clearand present danger to the community atthat point so yes at that point yeah youcan’t you so all the state prisons inCalifornia like this when the Lancasteris a maximum-security facility so youhave gun towers I want to say they haveabout eight to nine gun towers thatsurrounds the prison yep they also havean electrical fence that surrounds theinner perimeter so not every single guntower is mad I want to say there’s abouttwo of those or two of those towersdemand and those pretty much have todeal with transportand armory issues and things like thatbut but yeah yeah it’s that’s prettymuch what it comes to and when you canuse when you can use force against a aninmate that’s trying to escape God soI’m sorry to interrupt you do like thisno no it does so you have them you havethese guys on the ground they’recomplying yes as I run to the backwindow and I can see what’s going on umyou know it’s like whoa what the heck’sgoing on here and I see these guys arealready prone doubt the two inmatesthey’re prone doubt officers you knowthey’re kind of the ones who gotassaulted that they’re kind of breakingaway and at this point I can’t reallysee much of the blood on 101 one officerbut I see it on the other and officeofficers are you know are I can see thatthey’re already running towards the sitebut at this point when I look out therethere’s no assault there’s nothing goingon that’s continuing it everything ispretty much stopped like so you knowonce that one said all the otherresponding you know staff members thatyou know that are on foot they prettymuch just placed the two inmates inhandcuffsand they you know they they I think theywalk into another building and you knowthey were questioned those inmates werequestioned there and then anotherbuilding but meanwhile these two staffmembers are you know they’re in shockand they’re bleeding and you know therethey got scratching their head they gotsliced in the head I should say withsome kind of shock device alone at thispoint they’re you know they’redefinitely beaten a lot right especiallyfrom the head yeah yeah it was a lot ofblood so that was a huge eye-opener fiveweeks into into you know it’s fresh onthe job at that point yeah that’s whatyou don’t you know you don’t really knowmuch you’re just learning as you gosomewhat you know but it was a veryintense moment and I remember I feltguilty afterwards one of the one of thethe lieutenant the sergeant on duty atthat point he he relieves me to ask mewith I saw anything and thenso somebody relieved me staff memberrelieved me I came down for my gun POwent to the sergeant’s office he askedme you know what did I see I observeblah blah blah so I told him she’s okayI’m gonna need a report from you so yeahno problem so I generated my report thenin there and then I remember one of thesenior staff members there I remembertalking to him and I kind of continuedno I kind of just felt guilty like Ishould have done something or somethingI could have done bad because you seeyou see these partners that you knowthey’re they’re you know they’re ourvictims and I talked to one of thesenior staff members and he said no manyou couldn’t have done anything he saidI would he said you know he said he wason the yard time and he said when helooked and he saw what was going on theguys were already like you know in inroute to like falling down on the floorthese two inmates or there were inroutes like prony now and submitting sothey knew what to do not to get shotyes exactly they they did it’s soquickly that they did it so quickly thatthey just did it they knew they did somedamage they struck and then boom theythey bow down like Howard it’s prettymuch and they just got there on thefloor and let themselves be handcuffedand that was it man I can’t I can’timagine that Miguel it’s it was a nastysituation for these guys and you know -good real good good people I mean goodgood staff members good people goodofficers and they’re there they’re justfair firm guys and fair fair officersand it was so it sucked to see them inthat position and you know how long wereyou on the job at this point just fiveweeks almost five I mean just to thinkof you like on that perch you’re in agun position I know with prisons theytightly regulate what officers have gunsso obviously they’re not gonna put themin the population right it’s your yeahyou have to be out of it kind of higherin elevated position exactly so youcan’t get down there anyways you havethis gun and then that little time onthe job you’re supposed to be able tointerpret what’s going on down there andif you should or should not act thankGod it was so clear let me imagine ifthey were still interacting yes the officers are injured thenyou’re like wait do I take this guy outyeah more damage these guys have moredamage and by the time I you know I geton site with my mini-14and you you these scenarios play playingyour mind because it’s a matter of goodtraining to make you a better officer torespond to these kind of situations soyou have to play a few scenarios thatthat run through your mind what do youwhat would you do what would you do andI thought about that you know I’ve gotto put out the mini-14 and I would havegot my sites there these guys arefighting these guys probably would’vebeen you know fighting and hustling andmoving and this and that and that thatwould be a nasty situation if I wouldn’tyou know pull that trigger and you knowthere’s some movement and I struck mypartner down oh my god that’s that’s aterrible scenario to keep about you knowbut it’s a realityyeah it’s a reality so sometimes insituations like that you you you don’thave a shot so you don’t have a shot youdon’t take and that’s one of the thingsthat’s you know highly stressed upon youknow you know correction officers andofficers in general you know you don’thave a shot you just don’t take it sureso that applies to any and every peaceofficer in the state that carries damnwhat up it’s like baptism by fire rightthere my man that was crazy that was acrazy one yeah and you know theinstitution though there were manyincidences that many instances that werejust a drone in rushes you know from soextractions to riots on the yard youknow there are just so many that that goon in there and that I’ve experiencedthough it’s a lot of a it’s a volatilesituationthe tension is like it’s thick and thetension stick your whole shift as soonas you walk into that prison the tensionyou feel it and it’s a matter of you youthere’s a hundred two hundred onehundred two hundred inmates on the yardyou feel the tension like somethingcould just pop off at any moment and youyou’re always on your toes you’re alwaysready you know you never know of courseand yeah you’re surrounded yeah crazyyeah some terrible McGill can you tellus about ayou tell us about a like your strangestor most bizarre thing that you’ve dealtwith in the prisons or or just on thejob in general not so much into prisonsI would say in parole I probably had thestrangest more almost bizarre kind ofexperiences okay I’m kind of humorous atthe same time they see in Peru I wasabout I don’t know I was a pro Legion atthis point probably about three years inI had just taken over started a newcaseload where I was supervising sexoffenders and I want to say it was myfirst official day on that in thatposition you know that on thatassignment and I had my first inmate whocame into the office he just paroled Iguess the day or two prior and he’s inthe lobby so I have his file and it’sbrand spanking you with the case thoughso it’s it that’s a completely differentbeast so at this point you’ve graduatedfrom the prisons in you’re a paroleagent it’s a totally different jobexactly yeah now from keeping themindoors and maintaining safety andsecurity of the institution tosupervising them on the streets andmaking sure you know you know of coursethe same that emphasis is the protectionof the community sure but yeah now it’ssupervising them in the community soyeah so as a college and I ended up whatwas it I called I walked to the lobbyand I and I you know I I have to meetthe parolee for the first time so theycome into the office they’re in thelobby the I come out to kind of like ameeting you know I call them in itseemed like a an initial interview thisis what would parole agents call whenthey first meet their their parolee it’san initial interview where we go overall the conditions of parole we taketheir pictures we go over their tattooswe go over their special conditions ofparole what they can what they cannot dojust the whole gamut and that could takeabout an hour to two hours on on oneparticular parolee but anyway I go tothe lobby and call it the parolees nameand I yell out his nameI didn’t I didn’t yell at all but I sayI say it firmly and strong his name andso he movie kind of raised his head hekind of he starts to stand up but hekind of he’s kind of like as he’sstanding he’s kind of like I was verystaggered and then he starts to come andlike give I don’t know what what theheck was going on the lobbyists full atthis point there’s probably 20 to 30parolees in there and anyway this guystarts to stand up he just kind of likefalls down forward like on this on it onhis left side of his body on his leftside of his shoulder and and then I lookon the floor I’m like what the heck isgoing on here and what what happened wasthis particular parolee he ended uphaving like a stroke oh wow so strokeyeah and and he had a he defecated onhimselfoh nice oh so he’s defecating himselfand you can see it on the floor now it’srunning on the floor and I know what theheck was going on or how to handle thisI like but you know I’m done are youokay yeah he’s not able to speak so I’mlooking at I’m looking at him and so soI remember I think I motion to the ourclerical staff are free staff who waslike with and there’s a window rightthere so I motioned to the clericalstaff a female and I know with my myhand i gestured call 9-1-1 yeah and thenso she so I could see her doing that shelooked out out to the window would seewhat was going on she got on the phoneso I assumed she was calling that oneone and I didn’t get too close to himthere’s there’s shit on the floor andthere’s a lot of shit and now it’sstarting to reekI mean it’s strong yeah and they’restill paroled those these twenty thirtyparolees are still in and they’re likewhat the heck they’re like you knowthese guys got no filter so you got crapI’m sure talking crap so I say hey youguys need to get out by this time I gotsome supports to have to kind of come upfront to help me out I guess somebodycalled for assistance in the front lobbyhow old is this time ago he was I wantto say between 45 and 50fifty-five so you know you wouldn’t eventhink stroke at this point with a guythat young no he didn’t he didn’t seemlike he was in bad health I mean hedidn’t say he was in bad health hewasn’t an old guy but I you know it’sjust a surprising situation thathappened and so what ended up happeningwas you know we had we had theparamedics coming to get him theytransported him and then what is it thenwe had to had the the whole building hadto be shut down and this was about 10:3011:00 in the morningso we had to shut down the building wehad to have like a hazmat team comethere clean everything up oh my god yeahit was nastyyeah I mean it was it was a short dayfor everybody else but everybody youknow call it a day yeah that was prettymuch it and the reason I bring it up isbeing humorous is because my partnersthey were just joking around as far assaying yeah I first had a job and youscare the shit out of these guys youknow off the bat like no so you knowthat’s the kind of humor that that thejob kind of you know leaves you a littlenot leave you jaded but it’s just a partof it you have to find some kind ofhumor or the copings yeah yeah part ofcoping and part of dealing with some ofthe the crazy situations real-lifesituations that you kind of encounterand those are things that you kind ofdon’t don’t expect to happen when youwhen you gear up and you get you knowyou get to the office you get your daystarted you know but this is one ofthose things that was very bizarre crazydoesn’t happen every day people wouldnever realize the parole agent wouldhave to deal with that yeah exactly yeahit’s just one of those things you thinkit’s just a custody the custody issuesdealing with you know parolees andcuffing him up and transporting them andand you know office work you’re notreally you don’t really expect that kindof stuff to happen so yeah it does makeme laugh because it was a crazysituation long story short this isparolee I said I supervise them for likethe remainder of the year or two years Ithinkhe was ok he was ok he was a you know hewas a model model parolee if you want tocall it thatno never any violations he never usedany you know any drugs all the time wewere testing him every month none ofthat stuff no violations we had him on aGPS device on his ankle you know so hewasn’t in the park or school where hecould where he shouldn’t be so he wasfollowing all his conditions of paroleno issues with him ever the strokereally didn’t leave him any permanentdamage it’s like a mind like a TA orsomething something minor Iyeah it was something minor I mean itwas nothing that and I because I’ve hadconversations with him about it you knowafterwards of course and you know andthen we established a rapport with eachother and yeah and all that time yeah henever he stated to me that he neverloved them he doesn’t have any loss offunction on any part of this and nothingneurological and none of that stuff sohe’s yeah so it was just one of thosethings that I don’t know his body shutdown and he was scared intimidated bycoming to the parole office I’m sure andbeing on parole and knowing he’s a sexoffender he’s gonna have a ankle monitorbraced it on his ankle you know so it’sprobably overwhelmed him yeah absolutelyI mean that that is a great thatillustrates to some of the bizarrethings that no one would think about inlaw enforcement you have to deal withand I I had calls back where I workedwhere there’s times when people needyour help and they have shit all overthem and there you are that’s your jobsometimes it’s that’s it’s crazy yeahthat is that is definitely a bizarrestory well yeah well you’re saying he’soff parole now and he’s do you know ifhe’s been a good boy when I know he haddischarge by the time because I had himfor about two years and I left thatcaseload and he was still on parole yeahI want to say he successfully dischargeme he did about three three or threeyears and on the other school parolestatus yeah my understanding yet noviolations no nothing so yeah no that’sa good thing that’s a good thing yeahespecially with those kind of offensesyeah well that is certainly a bizarredealing with my man okay getting to theend of our questions here but Miguelcould you tell could you tell us aboutthe your most intense or terrifyingcrazy call that you were involved in asa parole agent sure sure craziest is in2012 I was part of a specializedfugitive task force for the state ofCalifornia was the California paroleeapprehension team and pretty much ourjob sounds like a bunch of badassesreally really nice gig I love it thisparticular assignment it was great itwas it was high-end I mean it was justyou know high speed everything it wasgreat I love that um it’s just prettymuch a fugitive task force task forceteam for the state and you’re justyou’re just add you’re just chasingfugitives trying to locate them usingand trying to utilize all thedepartmental databases that you can youknow and of course surveillance soanyway um January for my to my partnersand I were we tagged along with a la yesa Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department taskforce team and we tagged along with thembecause they were going to be targetedone particular parolee who I guess knewa fugitive that I was looking for so ourrole was this particular day was to tagalong with la st once they made entryand they doing her search I was going tointerview this particular parolee so sowe did interviewed him and they alsotargeted a house that was about four orfive houses away and and when when theyhit the houses they hit himsimultaneously so I talked to theparolee from I guess location a after Igot all the Intel and information fromthat particular parolee I walked overdown the street talk to a probationerwho was the target of that locationinterviewed him and the Intel I got waspretty much the same so I’m prettyconfident with that I guess because theyhad no time to contact each other youknow past information so so I had allthe info I could get at this point aboutmarket particular fugitives who I knewboth of these guys knew so we ended upmy partner had the idea of why don’t wejust go to the trailer where are ourfugitive is known to his girlfriendthis is his girlfriend’s trailer so wewent along my partners and I and tosheriff LASD sharp deputies to mypartners so now this is pretty much ourour location so my partners and I madeentry into the property knocked on thetrailer while Elodie had the front ofthe residence and it was a huge weirdlocation in so like a trailer park yeahit was a trick it was a trailer but itwas actually on a huge probably half anacre a lot okay and let in LakeviewTerrace and what is this guy uh what isthis guy done what’s his MO okay thisguy was the second striker I want to sayhe had yet uh two robberies I think hehad two previous robberies so he was asecond striker a second striker is onewho has is just that he has two felonycounts for for violent offensescommitment offenses gotcha so he’scoming to two violent criminal actsconvicted of both so he’s called asecond striker this particular paroleeor fugitive he was on the run for aboutsix seven months Wowso we’re trying to find him anyway wemake to the door we talked to the weknock on the door we know identifyingourselves state parole we knock on thedoor she opens the door and what was itshe comes out and she’s like wearinglike a bra we asked to go back in put ona shirt she goes back in the door openand she comes down with a shirt when shecomes out she kind of walksaway from us from the front door and shewalks about maybe 12 feet away so wekind of you know I get her attentionthey you know I don’t want to say anybut we call her name and we talk to herand in my I’m talking to her while mypartner’s kind of have somewhat of theperimeter and you’re just kind oflooking out and so pretty much actualmasking area is if we can go in there wecan search the placebecause we’re looking for such-and-suchthis particular fugitive she’s don’tknow I haven’t seen him I don’t knowwhere he isokay all right well do you mind if we goinside and you know we have to ask forthat for you know for her cooperationsure to to go in there so she gives uspermission we go in research and it wasa small trailer but mind you it was likeclutter everywhere there was I don’tthink I saw one piece of the of the wallbecause it was pork there was posterseverywhere pictures I mean it was prettymuch the corners oh yeah these arehoarders they’re both meth heads oh nicedrugs drug fiends I mean so you canimagine I mean this is dirty as helldirty nasty I mean oh my god it was itwas filthy but it was just everythingwas in there was full so my partner andI are searching the the trailer as bestwe can and we’re looking for like maleobviously we don’t see a body in therebut we’re looking for male some kind ofcorrespondence to show that you knowthere’s some communication going onbetween our fugitive and this thisparticular female and an addressokay so we’re searching we’re searchingwe’re searching and we’re oh no maybe aminute two minutes in and I guess I getto I guess to a point where I’m at Iguess at the end of a trailer on on thecorner and as I’m walking up closer toit and mind youour weapons are drawn or drawn at thistime okay so I I have my weapon drawnand I kind of get to a spot where I’m Iknow I’m at the corner but it looks likeit’s like a bed but it’s it’s it’s somuch clutter in there that you know I’msecond-guessing myself is this an actualbed because there’s you know there’sstuff everywhere even the bed I mean thebed you couldn’t even tell was a bedbecause there’s backpacks there’s allkinds of crap on there anyway as I getyou know I stopped and I’m looking downI know shit so I’m looking down I seesome sheets no shit everywhere and therewas my left index finger my right youknow right hand I’m holding my weaponleft index finger I reached down and Ikind of tapped or to movewhat’s the desheets and as I do that myleft index finger whatever I’m touchinggives and that was like a scariest mostterrifying moment I’ve ever had in mylife because as soon as that gave I knewthat was a mean and I knew shit was notgonna be good you knew you were touchinga human body I knew I touched a humanbody because he reacted he reacted likelike a human body and then once Itouched I realized I was touching to meand mind you it’s going my you knoweverything is going slow motion from thetime I’m reaching you know my indexfinger to time it finally moved and Ithere’s movement I mean it was thisSuperDuper slow motion sureso as a gay gave with my left no now Ijust quickly left hand is now back onthe on the weapon so now I have twohands on a weapon and I and I start toand I yelled let me see your hands letme see your hands but as I’m doing thisI’m backing up right because today’ssafety yeah safety distance and so I’mdoing that and then as I’m yelling Iwant to stay off right after I said itthe second time let me see your handslet me see your hands pop I heard a popand that’s where I was shot in the faceand the bullet the bullet was now mindyou my partner is showing and we’retouching shouldersokay tactical entry we’re still you knowhe’s looking exactly what I’m looking atbecause I can see I didn’t tell him whatI was gonna do but I know body languageand in our experience together he knewwhat I was doing and anyway he saw whatI was doinglet me see your hands let me let me seeyour hands twice I heard a popum and after I heard a pop I just I justremember covering my face like that no Ihad I had my hand on the weapon and thenI turned because I knew I got shot and Iguess my reaction was oh shit becausewhen I partner outside he told me heheard me say oh shit so I end up turningaround as I turned around my partnerlost his balance because we wereshoulder to shoulder as I turned aroundso my partner’s not falling back so yourspit in the face you’re spinning toprotect your face but cover your facewhenever yes okay and then and at thispoint I’m like you know I was backing upalready anyway for the distance andsafety so my partners and I My partnerand I my sweet to my left not kind ofknocked about how nice knocked him offbalance with the parolee ended up doinghe took me shot me with one went withone weapon he actually had two weaponson the blanket after an investigationeverything and try on all the one on hisleft hand malfunctionedhe struck that pin a bunch of times umthey want the one that he was holdingwith his right hand he hit me you knowhit me after he shot me he pointed to mypartner shop tries to my partner but theround went up in the roof he was goingback a little bit he was kind ofknocking going off off-balance and kindof falling backwards so now I’m eagerand I’m just I’m just I’m booking it I’mtrying to run out of that trailer rightand my partner he ends up as he’s comingout he ends up returning fire so we’reboth running out at the same time ofcourse I’m in front my partner’s mypartner’s behind me but I know he’srunning behind me he’s he’s shooting Ihear a bunch of gunfire boom we’re bothout of there and we both make it tosafetyI make it to my other partner who waswaiting outsidehe heard the gunfire and he didn’t knowwhere I was coming from because thisplace was like it was it was a weirdrural part of making place and it was alot of space so even though he wasn’ttoo sure where the rounds are comingfrom so he was like on his stomach sowhen I when I you knowran out of that trailer I saw him I saidget up get up they’re shooting they’reshooting so boom he gets up so we allrun out we all make it to the to the thesidewalk and my one partner who wasoutside he’s he’s assessing me until Itell him Mike I’m hit im hitand he’s assessing me to make sure theround didn’t go you know outside of myyou know back in my head rightand so he’s a sesame he’s walking aroundhe’s chicken you know checking for meand my other mini a kind of he’d anykind of does a medical check on my otherpartner that was in the trailer with mecousin take off his vast this is that soat this point my partner he returned gothim about six times shot him about sixtimes oh wow okay so you got like sixtimes when you guys were going for coveryes yes and then and I want to saywithin 30 seconds helicopter was in theair I mean it was so quick I mean theresponse time was was absolutelyincredible I’ve never seen anything likethat so anyone by ended up getting putin an ambulance didn’t loseconsciousness they put you in anambulance when you get shot in the facethat’s I guess yeah you don’t drive yetdamn I can’t believe that you got shotface what did he shoot you with whatkind of gun it was a 22 10/22 Ruger ohreallyluckily it was just a 22 still the onlytwo isn’t taking a lot of lives yeah youknow you know they move a lot so luckilythis round it took out two molars andthen it took out the two molars and thenit got embedded by the time I hit mycheek on the inside of my cheek it wasembedded like a pancake so much that thesurgeon actually couldn’t find it thefirst time yes he has to do had to do anadditional scan really he didn’t knowwhere the round was he didn’t see anexit wound or you know the the remaininglead so end up removing it you know ithad to do a lot of reconstructivesurgery that day and of course a lot offollow-up but but yeah it was that wasan extremely terrifying situation ofcourse it’s you knowit must be surreal to get to get shot inthe face and then be like I’m livingthrough this you know what I mean youfigure you take a bullet to your headalmost anywhere you figured you’reyou’re done but here you are holdingyour face conscious herbs bloodeverywhere but man that’s insane it wasit was you know it’s a quarter of aninch more I mean just a quarter of aninch more the bullet where I gotwouldn’t going on my throat you know cuzI said at this point I’m yelling man offis open and the bullet you know wentfrom the front of my you know rightright below my the left side of my lipmy about a quarter of an inch down thebullet that was the entry wound and hitto the two molars embedded in the cheekso I know I’m extremely fortunate to bealive to live through that and you knowit was extremely crazy crazy situationyou know and with with that you know Ithink the most overwhelming emotion thatI felt with everything everything that Iexperienced you know from getting shotto you know all the rehab andreconstructive surgeries and goingthrough all that frustration ofsurgeries and surgeries and proceduresand workers compensation and all thatthe most overwhelming thing is impacthas been the reaction and the responsefrom not just my own administrators andstaff members and own and own agency butfrom I mean just all the agencies thatwere there and and we’re there forsupport and I mean that to me still itstill affects me emotionally because asa peace officer you deal with victimsall day and you’re trying to protectthose victims people from becomingvictims and for yourself to be a victimis something that I never ever ever everever wanted to be part of right and andthat’s difficult for me to you know toundertake because you know Here I am andI had I had no way of controlling that Iyeah I didn’t know somebody was hidingunder that like it waiting with a gunyou know toto shoot me and kill me you know but thethe overwhelming part is just the amountof support from law enforcement my ownstaff members my own scene seeing theirresponse and how it affected them ofcourse my family that’s you know seeinghow it affected them but but yeah it’s avery intensive intense situation thatencompasses a lot of emotion and a lotof thought soman it must have given you some realperspective on life right yeah yeah it’sum you know it’s you know things likethatyou know you only get a second chanceyou can’t you’re you have to have a goodof perspective on stuff and I know ithas changed me for the better I mean Iwas not a bad person before that Iwasn’t a jerk I wasn’t you know I didn’ttreat people unfairly or rudely orprofessionally I gave everybody therespect they had do whatever they hadcoming but it’s affected me and yeah ina positive way of family and theimportance of life and sure you knowjust having trying to cherish everymoment and live life to the fullest youknow so a lot of good lessons there yeahabsolutely lessons it’s a greatperspective to have now I gotta ask youdid you have a personal relationshipwith this parolee was he your guy likedid you meet with him and keep an eye onhim for a while or never yeah never Iwasn’t your guy exactly yeah I went bythe time I got his case he he hadalready been a fugitive maybe about Iwant to say two months on anything I’msorry I had his case and then by thetime I actually got to working hisparticular case and file it two monthswent by so so anyway he was a fugitivefor about six months I had I had nevermet him he had never met me we havenever no interaction whatsoeverwhatsoever okay so it would it wouldhave it would have been different if Ithink it was somebody that a proteinthat I had supervised because I meanit’s it’s a matter of respect and fromyeah be a real betrayal right you’d feelthat yeah because I mean I’ve hadwhere I’ve told them look if you testpositive for cocaine one more time oryou know if you test positive forcocaine one more time I’m gonna arrestyou you understand that yes you knowwhen they appreciate that because you’reshowing a respect of the honesty rightbut so that time comes and you have toyou know a turn around a cuff flap okaythey know they know they had to come inso they’re not surprised by it right soyou have you build that rapport ofhonesty with the person and and thatgoes a long way so I mean I’m not sayingI trusted my parolees but I wouldn’texpect that behavior from somebody thatI supervised right then you mean and Ihad a relationship with or a rapportwith should say that is a that is acrazy storythank God God was looking out for youthat day my man here with us the best inthe best way I got one more question foryou I’ll let you go I don’t for too longI appreciate you being here in today’sday and age people are getting into lawenforcement getting into the prisons isthere what would you give the newrecruit what would you say to him for apiece of advice or word of wisdom Iwould say the job is not going to changeyou in the negative the child the jobwould not change you in a negative way Idon’t see that I don’t see thathappening I could speak on like my ownpersonal experience and where I startedwhere I was mentally maturity level wisebut when I became a peace officer- where – when I finished any and how Isaw my growth mentally much maturitywise and just in life situations andthen and then in really volatile hostilehostile situations that you had thatthing on the fly I see I’ve seen thatgrowth I would say just you’re gonna bethe same person who you are but you’regonna be more vigilant and you’re gonnabe sharper you’re gonna be more aware ofyour surroundingsof what’s going on around you in frontof you I think it’s it’s it’s gonna be agreat growth factor from a new recruitbrand new you know Green doesn’t reallyknow much what’s going on besides thebasic fundamental training that you getat the academybut when you’re actually on a job that’swhere you’re gonna learn 95 99 percentof the job the job is not gonna changeyou it’s gonna make you into a betterperson a more conscientious person sothey shouldn’t be afraid of that becausesome people say that the job is that’s athing people say job is gonna change youyou’ll be a different person theyshouldn’t be afraid of that exactlydon’t be afraid of that at all it’s it’sgonna be it’s for the better it’s forthe your head it’s really greater goodbecause it’s all about growth it’s allabout growth awesome that will crumbleman thank you so much for coming onMcGill and sharing those experiencesthose were those are intense and I knowyou personally we work together and Ifeel like I know you so much more nowhearing those stories wow man I reallyappreciate itwell I appreciate it Steve to have theforum and you know and I hope listenersfrom several of your of your yourinterviewees you know so much to take indifferent perspectives and you knowthere are a lot of good a lot of goodinsight and I’m sure you have other alot of great insight from a lot ofwell-rounded experienced officers thathave been there done that and have seenit and done it all so I know I haven’tseen him done it all but I did some youknow and you’ve done enough all rightbrother thank you so much for coming onman all right no prompt Steve thank youvery muchyou