In this episode I chat with 18 year police veteran Bill Norton. We chat about intense moments in his career, FB fights that lose family, and the state of the media and how they report on the police. Bill takes us way back to his days as a summer officer in Scituate, MA and how policing has changed over the years.
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hey guys welcome to the podcast in thisepisode i chat with cape cod policeofficer bill norton bill and i discussedsome of his most intense and funnymoments on the job we also talked aboutfacebook and in posting on social mediain general when you start when you startvoicing your politics and is it worth itespecially when a time you can losefriends and family and towards the endwe get into a lengthy discussion aboutwhether or not the the media is capableof being the watchdog they’re supposedto be without crapping all over thepolice it was a really fun interviewbuilds a great great guy really graciousof him to come on the show so withoutfurther ado here is episode number 18this is things police seize first-handaccounts with your oast steve goldbill thank you for coming on the podcastmy man Steve thanks for having me I wasactually humbled when you sent me amessage asking if I would come on ohthank you no I I it’s so funny I have somany cops in my life and in theperiphery of my life from the East Coastand West Coast and you know I’ve beenturned down before so I try to thinkabout like who might want to come onwouldn’t bite be mind being interviewedyou know and then I’ve not done muchplanning and who I’ll ask and then justactually what happened was I saw aFacebook post of yours and it was a goodstrong conservative police orientedFacebook post and I go bill would begreat I wonder if he would mind doing itso I thought about it I’m like a myzelI’ll just ask him you know so I’m happyyou came on man and that uh thatFacebook stuff I I recently got burnedwith that things can get pretty heatedon there you know with people’s opinionsoh yeah family members from yeah it’s Imean I admire you for just no say yourpiece what you believe that’s that’swhat you should do and I think you knowmy my friends list on Facebook is alittle different because I do somestand-up here and there stand-up comedyso I have a lot of like actors andcomedians on my own list and it’s mostlythe younger ones like if you’re in your20s and your far left you are a kind ofa dangerous creature to me like and whatI mean by saying that is like I got inthis argument a couple weeks ago thatreally taught me a lesson where I wasjust adding to a conversation aboutuniversal health care and kind of sayingyeah you might want to think about thesepoints of it by the end of it I wentback on Facebook there was like 30comments roasting me calling me processand all this stuff that was like stuffyou read about you know and by theconversation they were takingscreenshots they had googled imaged meand they were making fun of me andthat’s fine I can take you can you canbust my balls but then they startedsomeone went on this podcast and gave ita one star review solely on my commenton Facebookjust because they wanted to like screwwith my life in a real way and that’swhat I mean by dangerous like that Iwould never think to try to affectsomeone’s life in that way you know noand that’s the thing with with socialmedia I don’t I don’t mind a debate youknow but when when things start to getpersonal with name-calling or or justinsulting because in my opinion it’sbecause they’ve realized they’ve lostthe argument so what are they going toresort to it’s it’s gonna be personalattacks or or you know something just toset you off you know but yeah I try tostay out of that mud yeah absolutelyyeah totally just try to see my pieceand then if they want to eat each otherover you know that’s so you are asergeant last time I checked stillsergeant then okay sergeant at aneighboring Department to where I workedso I we worked with each other now andthen I’ve actually I remember making afew phone calls over to your agency whenI was the patrolman in charge of myshift and needed a little advice so Iappreciate that it’s a pretty tight-knitcommunity on Cape Cod of police soeverybody’s pretty supportive but didyou start I mean you came from off Caperight yes when I was originally hiredhired I was hired out in western mass alittle town called Rutland okay I knowRutland okay cool yeah you did a coupleyears there and then came to keep yeah Iwas actually I was a summer cop late 90sI want to say I started doing that alittle town called Scituate yeah up onthe kind of the North Shore so I wasthere for about four years five yearsand then I got hired by Rutland mass andthen I came to the department that Iwork with now been there for 18 yearswow it’s been 18 years that’s awesomeyeah yeahbill can you talk a little bit aboutbeing a summer comp because a lot of thepeople who listen come from biggeragencies or don’t aren’t familiar withthat they have a reserve program wherethe reserves are very limited capacitybut that was not the case inMassachusetts back when you were doingitno and it’s changed I mean in the 18years that it’s long if I had 20 plusyears now when I first started be insummer it’s a lot different now becausea lot of the agencies see the liabilityin it having not as well-trained butback in the day I was you know I lookedjust like a full-time cop full duty beltand what our main functions where wereparking violations or mine specificallyI walked in Scituate I walked thewaterfront down thereI think it was parking violations orjust moving kids along so they weren’tloitering and stuff like that real minorstuff and that’s a real that’s a prettybusy place so for someone who’s new youknow you could police work is so diversethere’s so many different things thatcould happen to you walking down thereyeah yeah that’s funny cuz yeah I kindof felt that a little bit when when Istarted when I came on the job there wasa window between going to police academyso we worked as like full full patrolmenfor a while and I felt ill-equipped youknow you definitely feel like there’s somany it takes so long that I think thelearning curve for being a cop’s likefive years you know and yeah it’s notit’s not the best for the officer Ithink or like you said for liability forthe town yeah I tell you even being onthe job 18 years for me I know that Idon’t know everything now so puttingsomebody that green you know that youngin a in a position I can see whyagencies now don’t a lot of them havebacked away from it or have changed theway they do it right now they’re morelike where I work now the communityservice officers there they’re there fordirections they’re not armed they don’tlook like full-time officers so they’rebasically they had to kind of helppeople around the town yeah that makes alot of sense I remember when I first wason we had and this is bizarre but weused to have the summer guys would ridewith us and they were full full gear youknow he looked just likeregular cups and another guy worked withhad a summer cup with him and we don’tknow too much about the summer cops youknow they get hired and then there theywork they direct traffic then they getput on a shift with you sometimes andthis summer copthey went to break up a party and thekid came out he was kind of a punk kindof a smartass and the summer copsslapped him across the face yeah thatwas his last shift but it was like wowyou really don’t get itman good times yeah bill can you tell usabout your first hot call that youresponded to the first call that reallygot your adrenaline goingOh cheapest thinking back 18 years Ican’t remember the maybe the first hotcall but you have those calls that justthey just kind of stick with you right Imean maybe it was the first hot call Idon’t know but um let’s see there wasthis one time I’m on patrol and I wasn’tdispatched to this so I’m driving downthe main road of town and it’s like 2:00in the morning and I look to the leftyou know you check the buildings as youdriving around and I looked to the leftand I thought I saw somebody movingaround inside the store was like a itused to be an old barbecue place greatfood but it was like two of them or likethis shouldn’t be anybody in this so Ijust pull him there and sometimes aftermidnight you know you’re seeing shadowpeople and stuff like that it’s likeyeah definitelyyeah so I pulled in there and I get outnot even thinking somebody’s in thereand I’d look in the front door glasswindow and I see like six people inthere I’m like holy crap there’s peoplein there and I I bang on the door cuzyou can see them all kind of like youknow they like drink in and kind ofparty and stuff like that and they lookat me and you saw all the other theireyes just like you know just blew up andthen they and then they scattered likerats they just were like all over theplace so nowby myself I haven’t the only thing I’vecalled in is that I’m just checking abuilding so now they all scatter and Iknow there’s a back entrance to thisplace so I’m like crap they weren’tgonna boogie to the to the back of thisplace and get out the back right so Iran to the back and I’m like crap nowthey’re gonna go out the frontso I basically did laps around thebuilding I just kept running around thebuilding until my backup arrived andonce the backup arrived we were able toget and there was six kids one of themwas an employee there of course theyweren’t supposed to be there after hoursand we ended up getting them all luckilyyeah I mean there was a good I just saythat’s like that’s like a a dream havingaccess to something like a place likethat when you’re you know underaged orvery young and drink oh yeah yeah thatwas probably one of them that reallysticks out that was a good oneanother funny woman was me and anotherofficer we had a day at court this isn’ta call for service either a hot call butit’s just kind of it’s one of thosethings that kind of sticks in herewhenever you you know sitting around acampfire and you’re sharing storiesright me and another guy were at courtand we’re sitting there at court waitingfor our trial to start before our trialthere was a guy who they were doing abail hearing on and I’m guessing him andhis old lady must have had outs becauseshe was the one that put up the bail andshe wanted her money back hmmso the judge so the judge goes okay sowe’re gonna give you money back you knowhe’s going to be held and then all of asudden that kid realize um wait now I’mgoing to the big house so he just kindof like dropped down and and the otherofficer and I we kind of look at eachother because we’re like okay we kind ofknow what’s gonna happen now he beat outof there he got out of the bailiffscould take him in so I go up the frontdoor of the place the other officer wason another side door and now the alarmsare going off in the place andcoincidentally as I’m coming off thefront door UPS is coming down the frontof the billI flagged out this UPS driver becausenow the kids he’s like oh by the mainroad I jump on the UPS truck and I’m notthis is people don’t believe this storywhen I tell them jump on the EPS or kindof go follow that guy and the guy goesare you serious and I go yeah I’mseriousso we started rolling after mrs. UPStruck and then we get about 75 yardsdown the road and I hop out and he endedup getting himself stuck in like a swampso I’m get him out and brought him backto court now our suits are all coveredin swamp water and stuff soI heard I heard about that now I alwaysmeant to say about it yeah yeah that’sawesomeyeah I mean that you pass drivers likeit’s like a movie you know I’m comingduring this vehicle yeah it’s it’s astory that some of the guys make me tellthe new guys whenever I whenever theycome on board it’s awesome bill can youcan you remember like like a verystrange or bizarre thing that you had todeal with on the job so faroh yeah one of the strangest things thatI’ve ever had to deal with me andanother officer again it’s aftermidnight we get a call for a guy that’sbroken into the house this I think wasthe husband that called us and the guywas still at the house so we get thereand the the guy is still in the housethe wife comes down to us from the backof the house and you know we’re talkingto her like hey well you know what’sgoing on she was like I don’t know whothis guy is he came into our house wewere all sleeping and we see him youknow outside our doorway and we hop upand you know of course they freaked outthey’re like you know they’re like inbed and he’s standing outside there yeslike the hall you know they have kids inthe house and stuff so they get out andthey start talking to him they’re likewhat are you doing here what are youdoing in our house and he’s like I’mhere and they’re killing babies here I’mhere I’m here to kill the baby killersand they’re like what so they they’relike holy Mackso you know they get I guess they gotthis guy down in the kitchen and calledus so that we get there the wife camedown to us is telling us this and youknow all of a sudden here comes the guyout the door you know down towards us soyou know we keep our distance from himand we’re like hey you know what’s goingon and he he tells us the same thing hewas like well I heard they were killingbabies here and I came here to kill thebaby killers like what like you knowobviously something’s not something’snot right on board right so well okay ohyeah I’m directing like that and justbefore we start to pat him down herevealed quickly goes to like right inthe you know the small of his back hereaches back there and pulls out thishuge friggin knife and we’re like holycrap so we backed right away and youknow obviously took precautions rightand made him drop the knife so I meancome to find out obviously it wasdrug-related and stuff but that one waspretty pretty bizarreyeah that’s intense yeah especially theedged weapons like that they say wherethey always teach us that you knowsomeone within 21 feet easily take yourlife did you have like your finger onthe trigger were you thinking like thiscould be this could be along this couldbe a long report yeah I mean it happenedso quick I knew I knew we had ourweapons out I didn’t have it on on thetrigger but we you know I’m backing awayas we’re telling him to draw up theknife and the knife just went downpretty quick and then we took him intocustody but I mean that whole time yourfigure and that guy’s been in that housethat whole time he’s been talking topeople inside the house you your guardgets kind of let down really thinkingokay that’s so much of a threat if hehasn’t done anything yet and then all ofa sudden he pulls this knife out of thesmall of his back how old was this guywell at the time he was probably late30s early 40s he’s since passed awayoh okay frequent flyer yeah he was thefruit that was the first time he came upon our radar that was the first time wehad ever dealt with him but after thatwe had dealt with himseveral more times yeah I think I knowyou’re talking about yeah yeah yeah nogood that’s umwe had a similar call like that they uhwhen that’s that is the the mostterrifying thing for anybody I think ifyou wake up and there’s someone likelooking at you when you’re asleep just afall like that’s awfulI don’t even like when my kids do itlike where they come in the bedroom andI open my eyes and they’re standingthere like what do you what do you do itI know I couldn’t I don’t know how thethose folks were so composed how thehusband didn’t beat the snot out of theguy or or something but I I would thinkyou know and that was God that had tohave been about 13 years ago now 14years ago maybe a little longer in thisday and age so I’m not sure he’s walkingout that back doorI’m sure there’s enough people that arearmed now that you know he he wasprobably like he didn’t getting didn’tget shot that night but yeah absolutelyI mean I’m absolutely if I mean you tellsomeone once and when they’re in theirhouse your house the middle the nightyou know yeah bill can you tell us aboutlike the most intense or terrifying callthat you dealt with well that’s that’sone the one that I just mentionedanother one that kind of picks upI mean every every call you kind of goon nowmore recently Marant up a little bitmore than say I was when I first startedthe job or got used to the job now withthe way things are going the hall thepolice all the police shooting at peoplegetting am the cops getting ambushed oryou know or the justjust the lack ofrespect where you know there’s like atotal disregard for life matter whowould it is but every call now is kindof a tense but I remember one call me Iwas just a patrolman maybe a year and ahalf on the job and I was with mysergeant and we got a call from and thisguy was a frequent flyer I heard abouthim before I first dealt with himwe got a call because he was sayingthere was some folks coming down fromHyannis that we’re gonna work him overand they were gonna come down and stabhim or whatever that’s what he wasafraid of so we go over to the house andas soon as we arrive we see a knifestuck into the doorframe on the outsideof the door frame there’s a knife stuckin the door frame so we’re like what theheckso now we start banging on the door youknow trying to get somebody to come tothe door finally the kid that called uswe see him kind of come into the hallwaylike when you look through the door youcan see down this long hallway right butyou just see you just see the silhouetteof them you can’t see him because it’sdark out it’s after midnight so but as Isee him I can see that he’s holding twoknives in each hand so I’m like he’sarmed so we stop back in oh he getscloser to the door and of course we’rewe’re ready and he comes out he comesjust outside and we’re like you know heyyou know we know him so we call him byname hey drop the knives and he droppedhim right away so then we you know justfor our protection we you know cuffedhim up and we’re like hey what’s goingon then he explained it to us so nocharges on him he had armed himselfbecause he was afraid but for us we wereyou know not gonna take a chance oh yeahabsolutely I don’t think peopleunderstand a lot of people to understandyou probably find the same thing thatHyannis is not like a real nice area buteverywhere everybody else in the entireworld thinks it’s like like the it’slike the Kennedys playground it’s likethis beautiful place where there’s zerocrime in them strange yeah it is I meanit’s it’s spreading out Hyannis is a lotdifferent than what it was even when Ifirst started it’s well I I don’t wantto trash Cheyennes because it’s not allof Hyannis but Hyannis and there’s othertowns on the outskirts of Hyannis thatare all really it’s kind of goingdownhill you know they’re just it’sdrugs it’s you know the same crimes youmight seein the city and the city’s you know offcape we get them down here maybe not ofthis frequent but there was a time whereyou didn’t hear any of this stuff itnever happened down here and reallydrive-by shootings and all that yepyeah I mean just let’s see just the lastfew months we’ve been several stabbingsdown here obviously shootings up inHyannis is areas on up there they getshootings all the time but it doesn’t itdoesn’t make all the news that you hearyou know when you get news from likebossed and you know Roxbury Dorchesterthings like that yeah um I remember thething that really made me realize twothings that really made me realize likeHyannis was going to the next levelbefore I left was I you said I was anatural resource officer to start andthe first four years I worked there I’dmet up with the State game warden atsome point during my shift and he hadjust come from like fresh holes inHyannis yeah and they were breaking uplike dogfights and I was like dogfightshe’s like oh yeah yeah dogfights youknow fights I’m like really he’slike yeah it’s not it’s not nice overthere and then that um then the bigthing was remember that woman was statetied to a tree and burnt alive yeah yeahthat was like some real mafioso likeholy cow yeah and then they foundanother one she was in her car off ofoff the highway she was left dead inthere there was another one that was altI think it was all tied together toowith that girl yeah and like you saidit’s not all Hyannis there’s beautifulparts of Hyannis but uh there’s somereal ugly spots as well oh yeah so billwhat would what would you give to whatwould with your 18 years of experiencewhat would you give for advice to newpolice officers or people looking intodoing the job well you’ve got a hayou’re gonna have a high threshold forbeing insulted or be able to basicallytake verbal abusethe public right you’re you’reconstantly under the microscope evenmore so now I mean it’s incredible themicroscope that you’re under nowespecially with you know everybody’s gota cell phone or something so you have tobe patient you’ve got you got a you’vegot to have that ability to to reel itin and I’ll be honest sometimes I don’tum you know sometimes I’ll say somethingor do something I’m like oh boy I hopethere wasn’t a cell phone recording thatbut guys you know I’ll say somethingthat could could get me in a jam maybeit’s not being the right thing to sayit’s just part of the job being a copsometimes you people need to know youknow that it’s a good thing you can dofor them because usually the next thingafter that is going to jail you knowright I mean a long wait like the way Ido my job is I try to get to their levelso let’s say I’m getting blasted withprofanity I may use profanity back justbecause I want to come down to yourlevel now some people might not thinkthat’s professional but you’re cut areyou kind of personalize it by getting totheir level so but as far as as far asyour you know you’re asking for advicemm-hmm it’s it’s tough to give advicebecause like my agency that I work foris probably is a lot different than sayBoston PD or LAPD but I would say justthe ability to have patience and yourdecision-making like on a scene if youofficer safety aside if you have thetime to think through or discuss withother knowledgeable officers that are onscene what to do go that route beforeyou start slapping on handcuffs orwhatever I just just be patient in yourdecision-making I remember some oldtimers telling me you can arrest someonethen and it’s a big book we’ll findsomething yeahdon’t go don’t go that route right yeahso I think that’s that’s probably that’sprobably the biggest advice I can giveis just patience yeah you’re right youneed a lot of it yeah how do you feellike a lot of guys that come on thepodcast they feel like a lot of a lot ofthe stuff they’re dealing with his kindof its kind of fueled by the mediabecause there’s the media always hasbeen kind of sensational they justthat’s how they that’s how they selltheir wares you know they need to makethings sensational a lot of times it’sat the expense of police and anybody whodenies that is a crazy person becauseit’s it’s obvious you’ll see a frontyou’ll see this front front page andthen you’ll never hear about it againbecause it turns out after someone didlike a little investigative journalismtwo-thirds of those things they saidwere untrue or they were coming toconclusions so being the guy who’sdealing with us on the road I meanthat’s it’s you’re having peopleprobably sound off on all thismisinformation that’s being broadcastright oh yeah yeah and that’s that’s thethat’s the state that we live in rightnow everywhere so everybody’s in such arush to get information or wantinformation everything has to be instantnow and the media is no exception Ithink but but I mean I want to be clearthe media is importantthey’re the watchdog of what lawenforcement does I mean they’re they’rethe watchdog not only for us but forlike politicians big business any issuethat affects our way of life absolutelyI totally agree yeah so I mean I don’twant to you know say that there’s not aneed for them obviously there is butthey just need to be accurate and honestand their information because I meanthat’s really what we want we hunger forthe knowledge we want the knowledge butnowadays it seems like it’s you’re notyou’re not getting facts you’re notgetting truth you’re getting biasedopinions both on you know we call itprogressive and conservative DemocratRepublican or whatever it’s the newyou’re getting now is it just is it’sbiased and it’s biased too I thinkjust play into your feelings because youdon’t I mean think about itwe don’t want to be or we’ve been I meaneverybody gets a trophy everybody is awinnerwe don’t want to be disappointed that’swhat I think the media is playing intoso they’re gonna feed a certain audiencethat’s gonna tune in every night to themright I’m not gonna give you somethingyou don’t want to hear because they wantyou to tune in the next night so rightyou have an opinion and most peopledon’t want to be challenged on thatbecause that’s work you don’t want tohave to look into things you kind ofhave the way you exhale you’re gonna gowith your feelings so that’s kind ofthat’s easy way to just perpetuates thatand the news cycle now is like likeevery half an hour there’s happen itseems like there’s a new story so thegood thing is a lot of stuff just goesaway because it’s just there’s just somuch being generated well yeah and itgets back to the point that you saidoriginally it’s like they blast outinformation they’re in such a rush to toget the story out there they’re blastingout information it’s either false ortheir slant on it or whatever they’renot waiting for facts but they just wantto be the first person to get it outthere and once the facts actually comeout the damage is already doneI mean you saw that you know you knowfour or five years ago which which iswhen I think it really changed for lawenforcement you know there were a falsenarrative being pushed for but it wasabout four or five years ago I think weall know the case but you know the mediacoverage on that they were quick to popout you know a false narrative that justwasn’t true and then after that I meanit I think it kind of spiraled from fromthat incident four or five years agoyeah absolutelyand I mean that’s the one the federalgovernment got involved inyou know they wanted nothing more thanto hang that cop but it couldn’t be donebut right the way it was spun it makeseverybody on super lefties go how isthis possiblewell because there was facts involvedthat everybody went over that you’re notyou know you’re not privy to all thesethings right now yeah that was that wasa disaster but I guess you know they dotell us in like in police academy theytell you or when you’re getting ready tobe a cop they’re like no one’s gonnathank you people mostly don’t like youright I guess that’s true andunfortunately it’s just more now I justfeel like it’s um and it seems like tolast like you said last couple yearsit’s really ramped up like it’s reallyin your face oh yeah definitelythey stemming from four or five yearsago they really put law enforcement in ano-win situationbecause they’re they’re the voice whocontrols information the information ofthe people and if they put thatinformation out that’s false ormisleading or whatever you may get alittle blurb later on saying oh thiswasn’t correct but by then that like Isaid the damage was done you know andwhat happened is is from the from thoseincidents four or five years ago everyincident after that has been has beenshown on news news cycles or you know onon the website or whatever and it’s itjust continues to put cops in a badlight it puts us under scrutiny that Idon’t think is deservedbecause of a lot of the incidents thatyou see on the news or read online arenot most of the times they’re notfactual now there are bad cops I’m notgoing to say that we’re all perfect andand there are bad shoots or whatever butthe media has caused such a frenzy overthis incident that a lot of theirinformation is just it’s just false it’sjust wrongand it’s really put us in a bad spotyeah and bount like you said that umthey’re not the enemy there and theyhave such power so when they it’s almostlike they figure and I kind of get thetrain of thought where it’s like wellyou’re the cops you can handle it it’salmost let you know I mean like they’rewe’re gonna whale on you you’ll be okayyou can’t you kind of expect to just bethis a just to absorb any abuse don’tthrow in exactly exactlythey I mean and I’m I’m a pet owner Ilove pets but right now it’s more of acrime to kick your dog than it is tokick it kick a cop right I mean you’reyou get more punishment for kicking adog than you do kicking a cop so I meanthat’s kind of where the priorities I’dlike lay it you said that it’s it’s kindof expected in the public in the courtsystem and the way the laws are writtenthat’s part of the job well I didn’tsign up to get kicked in the face youknow I don’t want to I know I it couldhappen but I think because of what themedia has done and I guess you know morerecently you can you can put politiciansactors Hollywood in the same block whatthey’ve done has really manifested thelack of respect for law enforcement orany type of authority figure and becauseof their rhetoric which I think most ofthe time is ignorant orill informed they create this lack ofrespect and bad things can only comefrom that I think now you know a lot offolks and you see it with you like wesaid cops getting ambushed you can go onyou know YouTube or Facebook any timeand there’ll be videos there you knowcar stops were you know for no reason Imean the cop has done nothing but askfor maybe a license and registration andall of a sudden it’s instant attitudewith f-bombs andyou know insults and stuff like that andit’s all because of its insanity it’sit’s I mean yeah it is but I think it’sI think it’s all been it’s all been howdo I say it it’s been it’s been notpushed but it’s been almost like it’sbeen granted you know acceptance thatyou can do that and there’s noconsequence for it we are our own wehave a politician out here she came outand actually said that the justicesystem is racist from from top to bottomoh yeah the whole system III I’m notsure if you know who that is but top tobottom the whole system’s right I meanyou painted a whole you know all policeofficers you know anybody that’sinvolved and trying to protect lives andand make street safe you’ve paintedeverybody is a racist I mean what anignorant thing to say that wasPocahontas right yeah you don’t have tosay Elizabeth Warren yeah that was anational story that I mean in my headsouth oh yeah yeah that was my hats offis – uh chief Fredrickson in Yarmouthyeah that was a great response he hadyou know he was kind of like WTF ladywe’re havin enough problemsshe’s a mess she really is but yeah Imean it’s it’s changed the way that youknow we do our job – I I think the mediais really again they’re they’reinfluential they’re the voice andthey’ve they’ve created it’s basically ashitstorm for us and I mean we’ve the Ithink the way it’s I don’t know if thisis actually kind of where you were goingwith this but it’s it’s really affectedour job in a bad way the media has yeahand by that I mean guy I mean beingbeing a cop you you have to be proactive- to protect your citizens to do thisjob you have to be proactive because ifnot all you’re doing is responding tocalls and a lot of agencies are likethat I mean they’re so busy you can’t beproactive but in an agency most of theagencies I think are smaller agenciestowns small cities things like that youhave to be proactive in order to protectyour citizens and their property and Ithink the media has taken a lot of thatawayfor several reasons because because ofthe scrutiny that the media has put onus and it’s like I said before theyshould be the watchdog but I thinkthey’re going overboard on this fortheir ratings I think they’re they’retrying to play into groups to getviewers to get ratings so I where I’mgoing with this is they’ve they’ve madeit so cops or I don’t wanna say afraidto do their job but they’re they’regonna be less proactive and that’s notgood for citizens and that’s not goodfor the cops to not be proactiveabsolutely and to echo what you’resayingI’ve heard that exact same thing I workwith a lot of different large agencieshere and of course my job and they’vesaid the exact same thing they go newboots want to get on there want tograduate and they want to get on theroad for the minimum amount of time andthey get a specialty they want nothingto do like they’re notno one’s getting out of Academy goinglet’s go crack some heads let’s go fightsome crime they’re going I don’t like itsued I don’t want to get I don’t want tobe on YouTube I’d like to get a job inplainclothes and not be involved in thiswhole patrol thing so you’re rightthat’s thethere’s a chance to make a lot of moneyin a lot of these agencies and I are anhour job specifically over time like Ilike I mean we talked briefly we’re downa few bodies there’s there’s overtimebecause we’re so short guys don’t wantovertime guys and girls they don’t wantthe overtime they would much ratherstand in the road doing a traffic detailin blistering heat rather than taking aneight-hour shift with an air conditioneror an iced coffee for that reason I meanand again it’s not it’s not to be afraidof the job none of them are afraid to dothe job because if the hits the fanI know everybody that I work with isgoing to have my back right they don’twant that they don’t want that like yousaid that liability that thatpossibility that something’s gonnahappen and they’re gonna be YouTubefamous or they’re gonna be put on blaston you know all the news networks thatnight for saying the wrong thing ordoing what they were trained to dobecause they’re there what happens isand you’ve seen it many timescops will go out there they do their jobHolly they’re trained and the publicdon’t know most of the public doesn’tknow how its framed they don’t know whatwe’re supposed to do but becausesomebody has a video of it and most ofthe time when things go bad it’s notprettyyou know we use batons we use you knowtasers and things like that it’s notpretty and people perceive that is youknow excessive force or whatever butmost of the time we’re doing as we’retrained but that doesn’t matter when itmakes the news because what’s going tohappen is is they’re gonna getsecond-guessed by the media who pushthat you know that narrative to thosegroups of folks that that creates a mobrule and you’ve seen this in likeBaltimore that creates a mob rule thatputs pressure on politicians andadministrators and what ends a patterngood for good cops get firedor you know they never work againbecause agencies don’t want that stigmaof that incident with their agency theyjust want to cut it off yeah you knowsee you can do everything you would youwere taught the right way but you knowyou still end up losing at the end ofthe day yeah it’s terrible I think whenpeople are seeing a cop struggle withsomeone on video I can’t help but thinkit has to do with just how goodeverybody like most people in Americahave it like I’m like people love todiscount and complain about nitpickAmerica but they’re really not lookingat the big picture how amazing thiscountry’s and how soft we are allbecoming because oh yeah we were allsoft like they see this video of a copstruggling wrestling someone that slipsto a chokehold doing whatever he canhe’s choking where he’s doing this hewhy is he doing that why is he yellingcut have you ever tried to subduesomeone it’s incredibly labor-intensiveand you run out of energy in like threeminutes so if he doesn’t get this guysubdued before backup comes he couldhave a big problem he’s wearing a gun abunch of other weapons but I think Ithink like a lot of the lot of thepeople we’ve seen becoming cops now evenare and I’m not judging them for it buthave not been in the physicalaltercationmaybe didn’t maybe didn’t play sportsnever got a black eye never broke theirnose neverthey it’s just there’s so connectdisconnected from the dirty work that acop has to do it’s all too easy to be sohigh on your horse you know know youyeah I mean there was a video there wasand I don’t even know where it was therewas one guy big he was a big dude andhe’s taken on four or five cops and helaid a couple of mile pretty good butall you saw on the internet was fivecops bashed on this you know one manwell you didn’t you didn’t get the partof the video where he just laid out twoor three cops you know well I mean thisguy wasn’t going down they were hittingwith batons it wasn’t even phasing himand you know again that narrative fromfrom the media and the Internet is anedited piece of the video five copsassault you know used force to take downyou know it’s pain whatever theirheadline is it’s not pro cop like noteven proof exactlybill can we get to know you a little bita little bit more and can you tell usabout a hobby or skill that you do thatmaybe people wouldn’t expect a cop to bea part of or just anything interestingthat you do for obbysure well for a few years and beforethis I never had any experience in thisarea I play with a bagpipe and I’m adrummer with a bagpipe band and drummingwas new to you as a cop I’ve neverplayed a musical instrument at allWow before this yeah and the reason whyI fell in like fell in love with thebagpipes was we were in I was in Bostonfor something I forgot what it was andall of a sudden I heard the bagpipes andin Boston everything just echoes off thebuildings and I heard the bagpipesplaying like that’s amazing I loved thesound I you know and I’m rushing I’mlooking for it because you can’t tellwhere it’s coming from I ended up fineand it was like I forgot I don’t evenremember what the name of the band wasbut they were playing embossed and theywere just out there playing and fromthat point on and I wasn’t even gonnacop then I was like wow that’s reallycool I would love to do that yeah so umwhen I got on the job there was a guy onmy job who I became really good friendswith he played in a bagpipe band and Iwas I was like man I’d love to do thatbut you know I’ve never played a musicalinstrument and he was like well justcome to a practice and I was like okayyou know never expecting to play a drummy you know my thought was like maybe Icould pick up a bagpipe or something howtough can it be no well I go to thispractice or whatever and you know I’mlooking at it and I’m you know talkingto some people and stuff afterwards andstuff like that and theyall about the bagpipe and how cuz I’mlike I do not have that kind ofcoordination to play back with theblowing and the squeeze in and as Ican’t can’t do that I can’t do that wellthe the person lovely lady who’s runningthe drum corps Katy’s and Ella the bandis call him kill from Cape Cod she runsthe drum course she’s like hey do youget with him I was like sure she goesI’ll tell you what won’t you try drums Iwas like yeah okay I’ll try drums so Istarted playing just the big bass drumat first which I mean that’s I meanyou’ve got you know a full afull marcheshe’s just basically hitting the drumwhen your foot hits the ground which isreal simple you’re a big dude I can seethem being like you should carry thisone yeah and they usually like the bigguy carrying the big drum right at theright of the front because you like themiddle post right where they’re supposedto go so from there I just went into thesnare drum and like I said we you knowwe do competitions all over New Englandthe band’s gone to Scotland a few timesnow it’s awesome but yeah it’s it’s it’sreally fun so yeah that’s that’senjoyable it’s it’s tough lately it’stough trying to you know make a lot ofthe practices and gigs and stuff becauseI’m so busy with work but that’s one ofthe things I really love that’s awesomeI think the last picture I saw you youwere using the big drum so is it new thesnare drum where’s the last couple yearsno actually this the bass drum was justbriefly oh I played I played the bassdrum while I was learning the snare andthen yeah and then four and uh let’s seeI’ve been with the band probably it’sgonna be close to it’s gonna be at leastten years now I I figured out the snarefamily fairly quickly it was non-stoppractice I mean there were many many amidnight shifts I had had and I alwaystold Haiti because I would record ourlessons yeah I would you know I I’d tellKatie I go Katie you were up with me at2:00 in the morning going over that setbecause I would just probably just haveher video playing and I would just bepracticing on aa practice pad in the cruiser you knowit gets a little lonely at like 4:00 inthe morning or nothing’s going on yeahright that’s all I mean that’s I can’tthink of a better outlet than astressful job and playing music you knowyeah yeah yeah that’s awesome manbill thank you so much for coming on thepodcast man all right brother all rightthank you for checking out the podcastif you want to show support for the showyou could go ahead and go to iTunesclick Subscriberate it in review it if you want toreach the show you have questions for meor maybe you’re a law enforcementofficer that would like to come on theshowit’s things please see at gmail.com goahead and write me questions or requestsor whatever I love interacting with youguys and I appreciate every email I getI’d love to get some things that werewould be high in my probably alreadylist if you guys are wanting to respondwould be more female officers that wouldreally be great and also officers fromoverseas I’ve gotten some emails fromofficers from other countries but no onereally has wanted to be interviewed yetso if you’re if you’re overseas and youyou have a pretty solid grasp on theEnglish language I would love to haveyou come on so let me know shoot thoseat me and I will see you next time