In this episode Steve and Ken chat with retired NYPD Lieutenant Peter J. Pranzo (21 years). Peter takes us back to New York City in the 1960’s and 70’s, one of the most tumultuous and violent times in the history of the city. Shootings occurred on a daily basis and Peter had to deal with the likes of the Gambino crime family and the Black Liberation Army. Peter had us on the edge of our seats! Check out Peter’s latest book titled Harlem Raiders! Links to all of his books below!
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this is things police seize first-handaccounts with your oast Steve gold heyguys welcome to the podcast interviewsactive and retired police officers aboutthe most intense bizarre and sometimeshumorous moments on the job with me asalways Ken Roybal how are you sirHey very very good how are you doingthis Saturday morning you know what I’mjust cozy it’s a little overcastI’m just got my sweatshirt on I’m justyou know relaxing just chilling becauseI’ve been so busy the last four weeksand we just got extended to the end ofthe month mm-hmm oh yes you’re on you’reon lockdown for now you guys are is itmandatory like these coverings in publicand travel and all that not mandatorybut I mean it’s just you know I’m justpretty much over it by now I just Ithought we were gonna be able to loosenup but apparently not yeah it’s weirdit’s different parts of California youknow of course California’s huge but Ihad to go for work I had to go up northof Bakersfield and I went into aChipotle with my mask on and nobody elsehad a mask on and I was like that’s theguy behind me I’m like is this do youguys like you can if you want I’m likeoh do you guys aren’t doing it I feellike an idiot but I wouldn’t you it wasthis weird guy I went into a couple ofbusinesses little little farmers markettype of vegetable place and a computerplace and to pee I had to pick up somewires some cat5 for my computer andnobody was wearing masks nobody in thereand they’re all sitting next to eachother the guy was talking to a customerand a desk and I was the only one inthere with a mask I said screw it I’mgonna do it you know but I mean there’sthere’s there’s not wearing masks andthen there’s people that just floppedthe whole thing like it doesn’t evenexist I’m not even in the middle rightgotchaall right so can I tell you about ourguest today pleasethis guy’s a heavy hitter baby 21 plusyearsNYPD is namedPeter J pranzo and let me just read somenotes I took on him because he’s got alot going onhe is currently doing consultations inadvisory work for movies and TV he hasan IMDB you can look up he’s one of themost highly decorated superior officersin NYPD history I don’t know whatsuperior officer means it is likelieutenant and above that’s likesomebody from another planet Oh gotchahe’s from he’s out of this world he wasa cop and this is what I’m mostinterested in he was a cop in Brooklynin Harlem in the 60s and 70s and I hadbounties placed on his head by the BlackLiberation Army in the Gambino crimefamily which is freaky and yeah while hewas a cop he also started writing forNew York City newspapers in policemagazines because he saw that theepidemic of police suicide anddepression was starting to take over sohe’s got a lot going he has threedifferent books one on stress managementfor law enforcement and the it’s beenadopted into the FBI Academy libraryhe’s also has behind the shield ajourney through my PD in his latest bookHarlem readers so Paula Murrayyeah he’s got a lot I mean this is goodtoo cuz it’s like you know you’re LAPDhe’s NYPD you guys both think you’re thebest yeah yeah so we can talk aboutstuff yeah he’s been around for a whilehe’s a very accomplished individualsounds like he’s one of those guys thathas endless boundless energy and he’snow in now he’s a little older and he’sstill non-stop I think he’s gonna justkeep on keepin on yeah I was thinkingthe same thing when I saw all the stuffthat he’s doing like man I can’t wait tojust do nothing no doubt I do thispodcast and some other stuff that’s itwell this is this is a lotit’s more than we can handle right now alot of time all right I have him onstandby and I had a phone issue as Imentioned in the last podcast I thinkthat uh I have a really awesome iPhone10 that I’ve taken like perfect care ofcan it’s in beautiful shape it’s been ina case the whole time but the littlelightning port is like worn out it’sbroken so yeah like I used to bringguests in on that phone and it workedbeautifully and now it won’t even I haveto I had to buy a wireless charger forthe thing so I can’t pack it into themixer board so I have my my backup phonehere going and I’m going to I’m going touse it to call him in right nowcool luckily we can edit and this willall seem like gravy Peter J pranzo howare you sir this is Steve gold and alsois with us as Ken Roybal hello helloSteven Ken it’s a pleasure thank you forhaving me on I appreciate that I’mhonored by itwe’re honored to have you sir we’re justgoing over your credentials here andit’s a lot man you you accomplished alot during your police career and youkeep on accomplishing things which seemsexhausting yeah we’re running latebecause when you’ve got time on yourhands the older you get you know thekids are out cranked grandkids aregetting big so my wife and I we got sometime on our hands so we started writingand and doing those kinds of things andkeeping ourselves busy zand and try toyou know play it forward a little bityou know on behalf of the young peoplethat are out there today and lawenforcement you know I love it I lovethe accent can we had a real New Yorkerhere and now friend of the show andformer guest Daniel jerkhe was actually a Brooklyn cop I thinkfor three or four years before he wentto the sheriff’s use our first real NewYorker we had on but you guys sound likeyou could be his dad that’s terrificisn’t it funny hope they point to youand vice versa you know it’s it’s it’spretty comical but it’s all fun you knowoh absolutely yeah it’s so funny – Igrew up near Boston you know and I neverreally got the accent I was fourfar enough away but people always saylike wow New York and Boston they havethe same accent no they’re way differentbut to the West Coasters I can stillhear I can hear it I can hear a littleBoston yeah I told him that before Ithought I avoided I hear all right Peterand we’re to start here we’re gonna goall over the place I’m sure but I wannaI want to get some stories out of youand then I want to talk about some ofthe stuff you’re doing some of the booksyou have out and you’re in your whateverproject you’re working on but can youtake us back I we were talking abouthere that um you were a copper in the60s and 70s in like Brooklyn and Harlemand you dealt with all kinds of sighmean this was like one of the mostdangerous places in the country at thetime so can you take us back and tell usabout the first hot call you respondedto as a young copper yeah I came on to21 so I was pretty young and I didn’thave any military training my brotherwas in his service so for me it wasreally unfamiliar or a territory youknow with the the guns and the issue andthe violence and such you know grew upon Long Island and kind of had a greatchildhood sports in the whole deal sowhen I got dropped into the city I tookthe job I was a construction worker Isays now that wasn’t for me the Deaf fora few years and then I took the test forthe NYPD and then and I got on the jobit was the it was my lucky day to get onthe job you know it worked out well forme when I was here Miller 21 and wedidn’t have much training because excuseme to tell you aftertheir King another day after I got on Iget on an April 3rd on April 4th MartinLuther King got shot I apologize Ididn’t even know who he was I tell youthe truth you know I heard of him but Ididn’t know much about it you know andand they slowly started breaking outsome mini riots around the city and somedisobedience civil disobedience in alittle bit war and and so we got put outof the Academy right away within threedays we were out for a couple of monthsand I could put out I was in Queens werein for uniform and you know guns in thewhole nine yards with very littletraining only a couple hours of ofweapon training and my first a hot run Iwas lucky you know they put you withsome older guys and some real tough oldcharacters you know that came on in the50s late 40s and 50s and and and I waslucky enough to work or what one guyFrankie Weiland may he rest in peace buta good good tough cop and we went on astick-up in a bar in Queens and that wasmy first issue you know shots fired Ididn’t fire my gun but you know the guywhat he stuck up a bar and he had a yeahaccomplice outside parked in a car andthe when we pulled up we were the firstcar in the scene it was a chance for usand we pulled up first and I heard onlybig loud like like a cherry bomb like anashcan firecracker went off and the guyhe let off a shotgun rounded the ceilingof the bar to get everybody’s attentionand they took all their cash and wewaited outside me and the mature atcrank it well and and and we put a timehe came out and my guy told me my mypartner at the time the older guy hesaid listen gun out right finger off thewolf the trigger put it on the side yourfinger get ready if it goes down youpoint and you pulled that fuckingtrigger if it’s okay excuse my languageand I says okay will do when I wasnervous like a solid man and the guycame out andand I didn’t see the accomplice off tothe side talked in the car you know butit didn’t know any better you know andso we got the guy quick enough and myguywe got a missus and he told me goKaufman so car started pulling up and myguy disappeared my father and he wentover you know he got the sharp eyes youknow got the guy across the street fromthe bar the accomplice and withoutknowing the word yanked him out of thecar and got another of a 9-millimeterwhatever gun added it’s just to show youhow about things that you know when youdon’t know and that was a little for methat was my first experience and I’mtelling they only had maybe a month onthe job you know and from them then youknow the violence it became hot andheavy of course it was just the timesyou know that the across the wholecountry I’m not going to say just NewYork it was busy you know Chicago MiamiLA it was just a busy time the the late60s and of course the 70swow that’s that’s a great story man itsounds like a movie the guy shoots theshotgun into the ceiling of the bar Imean it is it is astounding how traininghas changed isn’t it I mean the baptismby fire your generation went throughwhere you’re hitting the road with hoursinstead of weeks of firearms trainingand you’re just they pretty much put iton the shoulders of the of the veteranofficers hey you got this you got thisgreenhorn break them in you know thatthat is that’s got a ratchet things upso much more than you know going througha six or eight month Academy like whenyour nerves just supposed to be on edgeyeah it was true the difference was fromback then of course it’s busy today tooI tell the young people today you knowyou can get hurt you can get killedanywhere today and you see what’shappening around the country you knowbut what happened was you learned on thefly like you says and and it wasdifferent because you had know peoplehad no cameras regulations were a lotmore relaxed than they are with theyoung people today they really havetough guidelines to go by and and wecould we hadnot free rein of course but we had a lotof fun you know we could do more andnobody snapped the pictures out here andthat kind of things and as other thanthe organized dissidents the civildisobedience kind of thing they heldthere were demonstrations every dayacross the country and of course NewYork was a center point with all the todraft card burning and the anti-warsentiment you know and they the shootingof Luther King and of course in the 60syou had the president could shot and thebrother got shot and I know all thatstuff so it was that kind of organizeddisobedience across the country and thatadded to the fire and then of course theBlack Liberation Army really took holdand especially in the open it took holdall around the country they BL a andthen we had to encounter those peopleyou know they were killing cops allaround the country especially in thewealthy kid who killed a few you knowhow did they how do they differ from theBlack Panthers or are they connectedsomehow they’re the same so whathappened was that the Black Panthers Ithink they started in Chicago and didthe group with him and then they sort ofsplit it off and they had some insideissues amongst themselves because whenthey started the wolf the Black PantherParty there was a they were more of aninclusive party and it was ananti-government group and they did theirshootings and they kill people andkilled police officers in the like youknow they had a few wild people in therebut then they had a splinter group fromthem was to here be LA and it’d be laterBlack Liberation Army with it JoanneChesimard and Twyman Myers and a few ofthe other characters and she’s still outthere today in Cuba but they were avicious vicious group and that’s whythey had to go off on their own and andthe PLA was really a tough tough groupof killers killing black and white teamswhenever they had a white and but theydidn’t like their whites working withthe blacks and the cops working togetherso they targeted a few of thoseincludinga couple of my friends and they shot afew of them up in the inn in Manhattanand and around the country of course butthat was a tough group to be LA and thatwent on for a few years geez we tracedthem around for I think four or fiveyears and of course later on sheabsconded to Joe and Chashma wind up inCuba she escaped we almost had her acouple of times in the city later on inmy career and then the feds almost hadher and then they had her they losttheir world icon that sense she killedit Jersey trooper and that they had itreally tightened she was she was goingaway for a whole lifetime and then sheescaped somehow fucking went out twowent on to Cuba and that’s where she isnow you know the problem would figurethat one out then what’s the problemwith bringing her back what’s the bigpushback on that yeah I guess what dothey call that excitation and bringingpeople back I guess there’s legal issuesinvolved and because the the New YorkPolice Department Jersey and the peoplethat were involved and it had beenpushing forever and you know I hate toplay that political football game youknow it’s I try to stay away from thatbut however you know it’s going to takesomebody to step up to the plate youknow that we think it may be PresidentTrump this time I don’t know you knowthat could hey forget about therelations of Cuba utano for JoanneChesimard she is what you want to dowith her but she was a cold cold stonekiller you know when Deb and she didsome some bad things and and she becamea year a bit of a folklore or a heroamongst a lot of the younger people andshe remained that way today and there’sso many rumors around that politicianspoliticians went to see her I don’t knowyeah you read all about that nonsenseyou know however that’s that’s where sheis today supposedly and there and I Iunderstand people who Orinda know thatknow exactly where she is but ii can’tgo ahead and take her back you knowwithout the without the legal issuesbeing the hurdles being overcome youknow yeah Wow um thethey put a contract on you write a hityeah what happened was jeez was so manythings going on is that that was lateron in my career but early on in mycareer we were watching it I was sittingon a fixed post with my partner and inWest Harlem this was not the three toits west on which wasn’t as bad asCentral home you know busy as I shouldsay it’s a central home and we werethere and we went to meal and they weretargeting to us not the course of justme at that time it was just myself of mypawn that we were young I only had acouple years in a job I think that was1971 and in May and then the the PLA wassetting us up for a hit so to speakbecause it was a fixed post 24 hours aday because they threatened to kill daHogan who was doing all the work in bigcases in all the VLA cases and such andwhat happened was he they we went tomeal and they took over the spot alongcomes the PLA and they machine-gun theTom McCurry and nick bennetti goodfriends of mine put a bunch of 1516rounds to decide that the door wentthrough the both of them and out theother side of the door and then you knowwith the coincidence was we were justcoming back from meal and I heard theradio come over the radio is was shotwas shot was shot and then that’s theJesus Christ I said that sounds like Tomand Nick and no we went over in thereand I’ll tell you the truth that youknow I was younger I only had threeyears on the job and the doors were openon the radio cause the windows were allsmashed and one of them was hanging outthe car I to myself I’m thinking this isa car accident what did somebody Ram thecar and then there as soon as we couldhad a car we saw I saw all the bulletholes in the car the windows knocked outand I saw the the hole stood throughboth of the guys you know the big bulletholes and of course no bullet pulls restyou know which for for Tom wouldn’t makeno difference because it took a lot hetook a lot of my hits to the face and hewas dead at the time and then theybrought him back to life in st. Loupand I took Nick Benelli you another cartook Tama to the hospital and I took anick bennetti and and you know I had himin back of the car my guy was driving mypaw then we took him to st. Luke’s andhis eyes were rolling back you know I’mputting my fingers I didn’t know what todo right so it took my fingers in thebullet holes trying to stop the bleedingbecause it was his bubbling out you knowhe was a big guy he would like to fortyto fifty and and they luckily they justsaved him but they were both they losther inside organs lost all his teeth anda piece of his spine Tom Carrie it wasterrible you knowso that was my real first experience heonly had three years on the job ofpolice officers getting shot and afterthat things went downhill so to speak itgot busier you know and then the lateron when I was up in their central homein the 32nd precinct I was a youngsergeant and and we were hitting themhard with Narcotics Enforcement reallyhard you know I had a bunch of I had oneof the first diverse teams in New YorkCity history black white Spanish copsinvolved that’s because that’s only away you could do it and we took I meanliterally that thousands of people offthe streets in the buildings in theburnt-out buildings and stuff all thedrug dealers and the junkies and we tooksome heavy hideous off the street todoing the observations and that kind ofthing but and Carlos can be no theGambino crime family put a contract outof me for $36,000 I thought it was worthmore I guess not but a contract on meand my guys my family the whole nineyeah all right so things got a littlemurky you know holy cowPeter that is intense I mean that almostsounds like I’ve heard about New Yorkbeing like this but um back in the daybut that it sounds like a war you knowyou’re that must haveputting your fingers in the bullet holeand trying to stop the bleeding thatmust have really changed how you feltabout the whole thing I mean how whatdid that do to you mentally you mustbeen like I mean it’s sad you must havebeen angry did that really light a fireunder you to get these bastardsyeah you know you you really want towork but you know what happens after itwas so commonplace that could I think acouple of weeks after that they shot Joepigeon teeny and and the wiggly Jonesinto three two they killed themblack-and-white team they killed themand they went downtown and killed twoother cops in cold bloodanother black-and-white team and so itwas so commonplace and we went tofunerals like every week we were goingthrough funerals you know that wasmandatory everybody had to go you knowthey wanted five ten thousand cops atevery funeral so we had to get inuniform and into it so you really had notime to you know to take it all in or tothink about it and it was it wasfrazzling and every night I had you knowbecause you’re working with so manydifferent shootings all over the placeand for the people in uniform and at atime I for my first day eight to tenyears I was mostly in uniform in thereand you had to bring the uniforms homefor the blood you know it was a toughtime but we didn’t know any better wedidn’t know anything different so thiswas the job you know when people saygeez old you went through that how couldyou and how did you survive andeverything else and I said nope I saysit’s just like I tell you we are were nodifferent we are no different any of thecops have worked back then it’s justwhere God puts you which way you wereand for survival to keep your job and totry to get ahead a little bit on the jobto stay alive survival and to serve thepeople the good people you know so it’sjust it was just part of the job and Iwould say that to the young people todayanybody today would do the same thingthat all the older guys did back in theday and then doing it today a lot ofthem are getting heavily involved todoing good work and they’re getting thenthey’re getting hurt and that shot andkilled and everything else so it’s justwhere you are where you were put andthat we’re all the same that’s it we alldid through the same thing would do thesame thing and are doing the same thingtodaysure yeah it seems like a lot of itsperspective I’ve heard I’ve heard peoplesay that before thatthat worked in the 1670s that the youknow it wasn’t people nowadays like ohit’s so terrible cost of being killed itcrazy and all these things but the mediacovers it a lot more and hypes it a lotmore it’s a whole different animal buttheir point is it was like this in the60s and 70s it was you know it wasinsane in Chicago and New York and LAall the big cities it was just as nutsit’s just it’s just I don’t know ifwe’ve that yet or if it wasn’t soreadily reported on or what but Wow likeyou said there there was less some therewas less less ways to be heard and seenwhen you were doing a job there werewasn’t a recorder on every phone and allthat stuff yeah you know what it was whoalso it was it was a lot of anti copsentiment back then and anti-governmentbecause the police back then lawenforcement they were the hands of thegovernmentso everybody hated the government therewas a lot of anti-government rhetoricand and by that you know there were somany demonstrations for everything youknow you know they were at the war andpoverty and everything else and so itwas really an it was a lot of racialdivisiveness and a lot worse than it istodaya lot worse but with social media todayand the people really do cherish theywere law enforcement folks that’s all Icould tell you it’s a big differenceback then people were like yeah you knowthey sort of looked the other way andthat was only happening in big citiesyou know I could say la Chicago Miamiand New York some up in Boston to ofcourse and so it was only two big citiesand people yeah they turned a blind eyetowards it you know but now today itsrah-rah law enforcement I see it I writeabout it and and now all the Facebookpages and things and everything and andpeople say God bless you god bless youyou know so it changed and I’m clearedof it andI really am happy for the younger peopleand they got their work cut out that’sfor sureabsolutely it’s like it’s like a Vietnamvs. World War two veteran type of thingwhere they’re getting way more supportnow you know but yeah in the 70s man mydad tells the story but he was a cop forover 30 years and they couldn’t get copsyou know it was like not a popular joblike a lot of people apply now to bepolice officers get a lot of applicantsbut back in the day they were like theywere begging people to come on the jobseems like yeah we had walk-in exams onany given Saturday like somebodySaturdays during the year you can justwalk into a I guess a high school andthey could give you the police exam andbecause they needed two cops a lot ofthe old guys were bailing out they saysI’m out of hereyou know anybody would over 20 years inthe job who came on in the 40s and 50sand such they were gone this is I’m outof here to stay didn’t sign up for thatshit it was terrible you know and a lotof guys who want that they says justthat’s a you guys god bless you this isa different shot you know and a lot ofthem did retire so they needed and thenthey had we only had like I don’t knowmaybe twenty thousand cops on the job inNew York $22so their goal was to get over 30,000 toover 30,000 guys so I think they hired10,000 guys and a couple he is fantastickids and a lot of Vietnam veterans youknow and then what happened was you knowyou had that height requirementso you know it’s sort of they were kindof stringent not only with the heightrequirement the health and andbackground checks of course you know sothat then everybody if you’re separatedfrom your wife or divorced if you gotany shaky past a misdemeanor you out youknow and then guys I felt so bad for theveterans because they were heroes warheroes and there were half and shiresand you kidding me and also I’m gladthey they changed that a few years laterthey took out the hydric wine you knowand and that sort of changed thingsaround it God gave veterans more of achance you knowyeah I remember hearing about that themath state police was famous for thatthey you know they you can be a trooperin Massachusetts as long as you’re sixfoot in a marine that was kind of likethey’re I mean it made for a veryimposing police force but wasn’t veryfair at all so they actually theychanged their requirements as well yepthat’s very very true and what happenedwas they had not only those you knowthen we had no woman on the job nofemales so I think around they only hadmatrons they call them they werespecialized and just a handful you knowbecause we needed a lot of them to Imean it’s a shame to say it to do thesearches to handle the female prisonersand you know when you made the arrestand such like that but then there ofcourse that and that wasn’t fair eitherand then they report them on I tookaround 1975 or 76 they started bringingsome of the females onto the job andthey would grabbed up right away quickfor the special assignments and and youneeded you know I’m sorry when did theystop like I’m just it’s fascinating tome that female police officers had towhere like they were like dresses rely awhile you know it seems like socounterproductive to police work youwear your dress and like the bow aroundyour neck or whatever yep I think therewere matrons you know back in the dayand that was like their early and theythey did a limited amount of work and soyou know and but then of course the jobchanged you know with all the the rightsand the civil rights and all that goodstuff but what happened is that then andif they change the job and excuse methey’ve really they got put to the testyou know the cops you know you know thejob so the guys could be pretty wildso they had to handle the female policeofficers god bless him when they firststarted they had a handful probablytoday as well I’m sure but back in theday they had a handful oh yeah we had umLindy gurevich was on she’s a co-workerof Ken’s from LAPD and she she came inon when in the 80syeah she was not too long after me andum she got put through the wringer Imean she was a tough cookie though shehad the right frame of mind for it shehas some funny stories but I think eventhen the guys were brutal really kind oftesting you to see if you’re if you’regonna be welcomed in you knowyeah but the women back fall weren’tthey weren’t very the thin-skinnedeither they could take it they couldshove it right back in their faces andthey’re just all part of one squad itwasn’t male/female yeah it’s like theguide there was a guy at the cooler thatLindy saw he said hey what’s going on Iheard you were you’re having sex witheverybody in the in the precinct butwhat’s going on you had sex with me yetshe’s like oh I’m doing italphabeticallyyou know like Z for lust no those arejust such mild stories you know the realstory shall we it got crazy and thegirls sucked it up because you know whatyou can do say hey you know callingnames this has had hitting on the girlsand or if it’s got wild and posters putup in jokes in the bathrooms and allthat stuff so you know there was a lotof you know and a lot of the guys andand when I so I really never really hadthe opportunity until I got to centralon the 32nd precinct as a sergeant so weonly had a couple of females and so Itold her guys just be careful I tookplease guys don’t don’t don’t lose a jobover this number one number two don’tshow off to the woman because and thewoman I told them the same thing whenthey were on patrol I says don’t showoff to the guys so don’t take that extrawhack at somebody you know and believeme you’re talking to a guy that took alot of extra watch you know but the ideais that don’t don’t don’t try to holdyourself back from showing go off andtrying to be a tougher than you knowthen necessary you know grab push pullroll em cuffing and done you knowbecause yeah and even you know liketoday they got to be so careful you knowyou can wrestle you could rollbut of course the people in the crowdnever really liked and I’m talking aboutwhen I first came on the job until todayespecially in the minority communitiesyou know so you’re taking those extrashots to the face or to the head youyou’re issuing that you know and andyou’re talking to a guy who did all thatI’m sure you guys you know we’reinvolved in those kind of thingsyourselves but and I used to tell itfirst of all 90% of the time it doesnothing to the perp the guy you got youknow they they laugh it off you knowthat they could take 50 hits to the headit just doesn’t so rolling cuff him dowhat you got to do you know fast and gethim out of there don’t let the crisistake them and put them in the back ofthe car and go before the crowd can getyou know it gets to a little wild youknow don’t stand there with him becausea lot of these young people they canwent to shock a little bit so after theycollar the guy that’s standing aroundthere talking and I so tell them this noget out of here get him in the fuckingclass cuz my language and get him out ofhere go go to the precinct you knowwe’ll clean up we’ll fix up we’ll do theinvestigations later you know but soit’s it was a little little bit of atouchy situation and when when thedifferent groups of people the tops whodidn’t know each other or femalesagainst the guys who would want to showoff to one another so there was a lot ofthings that popped up with the differentdifferent new races of the officers andthen of course the same with the withthe you know the black and white copsthe same issue you know when you you’reworking in Harlem or Brooklyn orwhatever you’re working in Boston or laChicago whenever you’re working you knowyou everybody comes on to the job withthe little bit of racial situationsthey’re there they harbor their ownfeelings of course it’s just normalmaybe the way you were brought up maybethe way due to feelings over here so yougot to eliminate that I try to tell themtake those bad words out of your mouthyou know they’re goneyou know that’s you’re done no matterwhat happens they’re gone and your oldblue and that connects to tell the blackguy is that Spanishlike I say Kay you know it’s a blue teamnow you know you got to work togetherand they became very good friends mostof them now they all went to home intodifferent areas you know different partsof the city different parts of thesuburbs and we live different maybe andwe have different lives maybe indifferent schools but we’re more thantwo windows eight ten twelve hourstogether with the same you know whatbrothers in blue and man you got tostick up for each other because I’mtelling you I work with some tough toughblack and Spanish cops you know I wasentertained scrappy the Italian kid butlet me tell you these guys were toughguys because you know there a lot ofthem grew up in the areas I would neversaw before you know and I’m telling youthey and they impressed me and theysaved my life on a few occasions one inone in particular Bobby Smith saved mylife when I was shooting up in CentralHarlem and he jumped in front of me andthe guy was bailing out of a window inthe burnt-out building and they got intoa close-combat shootout and he jumps infront of me pushes me out of the way andstarts shooting back and forth with thisguy and nobody got hit and so withchasing him and then I went one way totry to cut them off and I got therefirst and I managed to shoot the guy andhe went down and we high-fived on thestreet and he saved my life I saved hisI mean this was something that you knowI mean we were we were brothers and wegot medals together on metal day and theteam effort nikhat X team that had up inthe central hall and so you know it wasone big blue team like it is today youknow there’s nothing like high stresslike that to really bond a department toyou guys are going to war together everyday you really you’re really forgingsome friendships and brotherhood therethat that’s a lifetime for sure todayPeter I am very curious about and Ieverybody is about the Gambino familywhat was it what is it like dealing withthese mobsters that you know and we havethis preconceived notion that they’relike they’re polished they’re wearingnice suits they’re they kind of playnice with the police when you when youinterview them but really their sinisterbehind the seezere there it is it anything like thatwhat is it like dealing with these guyswell what it was it’s it’s in my mylatest book column rate is its which isabout the narcotics team that I had upin central Holland back in the 70s andthe early 80s and and it’s I talk aboutthe mobsters in there and such and whatit was their heads of the families youvery rarely touched narcotics themselvesthey didn’t and then there are soldiersbeneath them they controlled differentparts of the city and their main thingwas to make sure that there was enoughsupply of narcotics to the to the peoplein the in the communities mostlyminority communities unfortunately backthentoday it’s everywhere but the heroin wasthe drug of choice but and the Mafiafamilies especially in the rock inChicago and such and probably in Bostonas wellthey very rarely touched the materialthemselves but what they did do they hadthe connections to bring the drugs intoAmerica you know they had theconnections from bringing it to say fromTurkey mostly the stuff that I wroteabout that the poppy fields in Turkeyand they poured it from there and downto the port of Merson and he shiftedover to Palermo Sicily and they had itall bundled up and they put it on oliveboats and they’d send it to America tothe Fulton fish market and from therethey’d send it to the Bronx New York andthat they’d have it all distribute youknow put it into diamond quarter bagsdeclare scenes ready for the street saleyou know and then they would give it tothe and that was all all they did wasthey brought it to America from therethey had the there their gang peoplethere were drug lords or the people whocontrolled the streets in there and theavenues around the city the busiestparts of the city they handled thenarcotics on the street so the Mafiawhat they did had the internationalconnection which of course mostly youmopes do drug dealers and even the majordrug dealers had no way of getting thetrucks- well you know the europium and mixingand the chemistry working and gettinginto what into the powdered form intoheroin so computer is this my Fiatpeople sorry to interrupt you but thisis you saying they have the connectionsthis like um when you see movies likethe longshoremen playing cards on the atthe docks like these are the people theyknow they know the people that importgoods right got it okay exactly that’sexactly what it is they stayed out ofthe way of course handling the narcoticsthemselves of course but they put up themoney and they made a ton of Tony moneyor every few blocks they were makingmillions of dollars a year on it and andback then like I don’t know if theydeclare scenes of heroin a couple ofhits you get out of a class II he was$10 quarter big again five six hits outof it $25 am i understanding today fromI talked to the people the stuff comingfrom Mexico is so cheap it’s cheaperthan marijuana I mean three dollars abig you know glassiness I’m coming fromMexico to give you the idea so why get alittle paid three dollars for fivedollars for a marijuana hit when you canget a better high you get the heroin hityou know for the people who were moreadventurous for for the same money youknow so that’s that’s how it is todayback then it was it was more you had topay more money and today the hits areeven more dangerous than they were backthen they would the hollom hits backthen were dangerous today the hits themto mix with the fentanyl you know theextra juice they got in there so it’sit’s deadly shit you know yeah absolutethat is that’s accurate in the moviesyou see then about the Mafia wherethey’re they kind of pooh-poohed thedrugs themselves and actually bannedtheir Kappos and their their leadersfrom from doing that stop and kind oflook down on it but they have no problempushing it on the the impoverishedcommunities yeah that’s that’s that wasthe whole thing in my book was becausethey use the the pawns the Harlem peopleespecially in the and back in the 70sand 80swhen the hair would really really tookhold it was the drug central it was thefor America column with the central areafor the selling of heroin people camefrom all around states around the gamefrom Massachusetts to get the goodstrong stuff and they they’d beat itdown they don’t mix it up a little bitlighten it up and take it back home sothey used to buy their quarter bags dimebags big bundles of them you know and goback home and then send it to thesuburbs and everything else and andthat’s when it when it started to spreadso far out there they put a stop to ityou know when we put a stop to it so tospeak so the old knock cops from theyears backall the old jump teams new team specialNarcotics Enforcement teams the DEAbefore custom code Undercovers in theDEA and and and the organized crimepatrol units to buy in cells and thatkind of stuff there was so manydifferent enforcement efforts and we puta stop to it and then it here it comesit’s back again and that’s that’s how itis today you hire heroin making acomeback because in Mexico you know andthey’re coming in and hot and heavy andit’s it’s hard you know just stop ityeah absolutely the UM so you’re ifyou’re dealing with the Gambino’s backthen you’re not you’re not seeing themon the street you’re not dealingdirectly with them they’re very muchalmost like paper pushers and this wholething they’re just they’re given thefunds they’re using their money to makemoney but they’re not out there I meanwhere is the words of disconnection fromthem is their you know what I meanthere’s not um are they using like blackstreet gangs to get this stuff out orare they just selling it to them yesthat’s exactly the using the blackstreet gangs to do the selling and thetoughest of the black street gangs wouldkill off the weaker ones and he wouldtake over a whole area of us let’s sayHarlem or the Lower East Side ofManhattan and in Brooklyn and Bronx andsuch and and and that’s what it was allthey did was supply it of course theydidn’t go out there didn’t go out thereselling there any of them a mafia peopleyou know they wouldn’t touch itthemselves and so that disconnect waswe didn’t see him riding up and down thestreet checking out the locations andmaking sure everything is okay you knowthey just had their people and as longas they was selling they wouldn’t careand the murder rate was so high you knowdia excuse me the blacks and the Spanishthey were killing each other off theterritory and they wouldn’t care theydidn’t care how many bodies they had aslong as they sold the trucks that’s thatwas their main thing and they weremaking more money and all they wouldmake more money in one month then threefour five years of gambling money youknow they weren’t to be gambling thenumbers money and all the other stuffthat’s where the mob really made theirmoney was gambling until the narcoticscame in the late sixties and seventiesand then they made a ton of ton of moneythat’s that’s that was their the mainthing you know and all those and theywould kill ityou know they would kill each other offthe mobsters you know the Italian mafiasay monthly people and they werefighting all the time and then you knowthat stories from years back there wereruthless people because there but butthen when it came time for the big money60 70s and 80s man I’m telling yousomething it was they were ruthlessamongst themselves to mafia people andthen the the black and the Spanish druggangs man they did keep the we hadbodies all over the precincts you know Ican’t tell you it was probably similartoday when they got to the virus thebodies all over the place which isterrible you know and this is the way itwas they were all over the streets youknow it will day every day you know allaround the clockdid you ever kick in the back room oflike an Italian restaurant and do a raidon a bunch of like Italian guys slurpingpasta with like tommy guns lying aroundanything like that well you know youknow what happened was that the peoplewe work with you know in all honesty wewish them good Undercovers who organizedcrime people heavy undercover hittersyou know Undercovers from the NYPD andthey had some goodyes worse than they had the DEA peopleand these people would would reallyinfiltrate the mob and they would youknow in America and the DEA gave theright to do the international under thatthe Lord a passed years ago so the DEAcould go any way they want and theyfollowed the drugs back and and theymade some good heavy arrests and theyput a kibosh on it and and it was it waswell done for the you know for back inthe day I’m telling you the enforcementtactics were very good and today ofcourse they have really top-notch todaythey really got people who wereinfiltrating the you know the Mexicandrug gangs the Sinaloa cartel’s and andsuch like thatthey’re infiltrating them they knowwhat’s going on of course it’s expensivelaw enforcement and to get itaccomplished it’s not such an easy thingbut they’re doing a good job I have tosay the people I talked with from what Isay they’re doing a great job wellthat’s that’s awesome man that’s crazycrazy do you have a do you have a mostbizarre or strange thing you dealt withon the job you know there’s so many youknow the I always said that the policework law enforcement is it can be themost deadly and serious things but itcould be the most comical thing you knowthink the guys are always fed and themore time you have in the job the guysare very sarcastic so I want people tounderstand you know I tell folks and youknow play would make his speechessomebody dead cops laugh you know I’mtelling you they they they get they getupset and they do things out there butamongst themselves I always don’t keepit amongst yourselves you know they’revery cynical we but I had we had so manycynical things that happened with when Iwas on the I was in the in the 32ndprecinct and I had covered patrol youknow before I went into the medical teambut when I was covering Patrolwe had the East River there you knowthat went from downtown Manhattan Statueof Liberty all the way up town pairstaller so we always had weather theredump bodies they kill people that dumpedhim in the East River he had suicidepeople people fall off both whatever itwas you always had a lot of floaters youknow the dead bodies would float and thecurrents would take it from downtownuptown and we would stand there and theysay they said there’s a floater in thewater and you would go down the riverand they were tried to car down thereand precincts were close together andthey would stand there and say waitdon’t touch that fucking body like tocall ABBAbecause the body would float out of yourprecinct you know you’re a jurisdictionand it would go all the way uptownjust and we’d stand there and say okayit’s gone it’s uptown it’s out of myprecinct you know so those kinds ofthings though you know the precinctsalways work together we always courseboundaries yeah we responded on the youknow runs whatever had to be donebetween precincts but the boundary linewith the bodies the homicides exactlywhere it was where a street was themiddle of one side of the street to theother and there’s so many stories thatwent on about that I always found thatto be comical you know but as terribleas it soundsdragon bodies around that looks likeit’s your your problem yeah exactlyexactly what this is not Alice let’s getout of here you know call up get him gethim over here this day is not ours youknow because these things lead to hoursand hours a piece of paperwork I knowfor the boys and the cops you know yeahnobody wants that noiseabsolutely Peter do you have a I meanyou have a very full career here but doyou have something in your mind thatstands out as like the most intensething you dealt with I would have to sayyou know the the law enforcement peoplegetting shot and unfortunately you knowwhen I was working and even today Ishould say I never want to take awayanything to the young people today butyou know I would have to say with theinternet where my guys got shot and Tomcurry Nick Benetti got shot and I’veseen Alitalia always respond to thosesituations in thethat that probably that bothered me themost and children you know childrengetting either getting caught in thecrossfire shot car accidents and thosekinds of things that bother me the mostyou sort of relate that to your familyyou know and and that to me does thattype of a situation was probably themost intent that was involved inshootouts of course and bump up a potbut that part to be less then pulling upon the job where accomplish a shadow ora cop was shot and killed and stabbed orwhatever the heck that the deal was thatthat hurt the worst or where a child waskilled in a crossfire or young peopleyoung Spanish or black kids got shot at10 12 years old you know by somebodyelse you know they were you know theywere you know whereas we call themyahweh’s when they would call when thepolice would come to stand on the cornerand and for a few dollars they wouldcall when the police came down thestreets but and they would get shot alot by people who wanted to be thereAaron so those kinds of things bother memore children and other police officersand getting shot and killed thatbothered me the most oh yeah absolutelyNew York is so densely populatedobviously but like I have a buddy I goto visit sometimes he lives inGreenpoint and he takes me all over youknow and these a lot of theseneighborhoods where you were getting inshootouts and horrible things werehappening or are now like reallygentrified there’s like it’s you knowit’s you know skinny white dudes withwool hats drinking $10 coffees walkingeverywhere but um the the it’s packedthere like it’s every borough you go tothere’s people every on top of eachother so I can only imagine if they’reif you’re talking about all these allthese shootings there must have beenpeople shot constantly who weren’tinvolved just just for the sheer numbersof people out and about right yeah whathappened there was a lot of crossfireincidents and a lot of cops getting shotand for us wire of course and and likeyou said today it’s Mikeyou run around to the worstneighborhoods that called him the worstthe highest crime neighborhoods thatwere back in the day and and then theycleaned it up great where the old peoplewent with the old Spanish and the oldblacks went I think this drifted off Idon’t know because like you said it’saldia the new world new folks and newkids coming in Generation X whateverthat they call them and it just changedand and when you talk about you know howmuch devastation there was it was justjust horrible that when you would cometo work and you would leave you we livedI lived and a lot of the cops lived inthe suburbs and some lived in the betterareas in the city there you know tosafer areas in the city most of it thecops back then but when you came overthe bridges and you had to get into thiscity and you got into the busyneighborhoods where you worked it waseye-opening you know it was justunbelievable but it was you know youweren’t on vacation for a week or twoand then you come back and say oh my godwhat am i doing yourself but you’verolled back into it right away you knowand like I tell people how did you dowhy is that it’s a job you know it’s youknow people walk on steel beams you knowand say why would you do something likethat or you’re a fireman going into ainto a fires and I like wedding it’slike fires they could win first to go upon the roof that you know they fightfrom inside out so it’s the same thingit’s where you areit’s a job you know you raise yourfamily and and and they go on with yourlife into the best they can and andthat’s it absolutely did now looking atNew York City and I love the place Ilove visiting there but um it seems likeit was incredibly violent for like along-ass time like 60 70s I murdered the80s when I was a kid I remember likethere were stories of just like if yourode the subway you’d get stabbed likeand then the nut and then when did it solook to me it looks like 30 years oflike pretty pretty dangerous placewhen did it start to turn the clearcorner yeah I have to tell you I wouldhave to say probably the 90s oh they sayto give a mayor giuliani a lot of credityou know when he came into being he wasa the DA for the further the feds andstuff like that so he was a law andorder guy and what happened was you hadto say you know because they saw what wedid and we made the item that we madeeight thousand arrests mind that Kotikscheme so they saw what worked crimewent down we cleared the streets wecleared the buildings it did work sothey know that enforcement works do youwant to load up the prisons do you wantto take thousands of people off thestreets and they did in the 90s and itdid work so what happened was that andthat sort of changed the city a lot ofthe old bad guys got old and died theytrips north a better education system soby the by the 2000 it changed the cityreally started to change you know fromarrest law enforcement education betterrace relations all around there’s alwaysthose things that go on of course andput things to change got it hey Peter Igot a couple questions for youyep tell us tell us about stop and friskand what’s the big controversy over itokay and we did that a lot I have totell you that was that was our forteright I make a little joke we had a jumpteam you know that my people eight guysin a group of ten cops in a group butyou caused and that when I say that isRay you know you stop the cause wherethe unmarked cars radio cars and youstop and you get out you jump out andthey were putting people against thewall and and you give them a toss andyou come up with drugs but it’s not soeasy you know what we did and Iexplained to people about to stop andfrisk you really have to do target tolocations so you have to have it spelledout with the district attorney’s officeyou have to work hand in hand withprosecution so you can’t just takeeverybody and you appraiseput them against the wall and starttossing everybody and you so you have tohave targets set up and and you havezone set up so these are the streetsyou’re gonna do these are the cornersyou’re gonna do you have to issuewarnings and you’re talking to a guythat didn’t do a lot of warnings but Iwanted this is the way it was supposedto be done in and we got better at it soyou give the warnings out I don’t wantyou on the street you can’t hang here onthe street and you wonder 30 40 50 80people a hundred people and more on thestreet you guys you’re done right yourlittle drug trade is done you’re notgonna hanky and I’ve come to the lawyerhere you’re not gonna drink gamblewhatever you’re gonna do hanging on thestreet is not going to be anymore onthese streets because the people wholive in those buildings they don’t wantyou here so that kind of a situation andwhen we talk about so we really cameinto the being of stop stop and friskand it’s not stomping through so ofcourse we know you have to explain itsand stop it’s designed for stop questionand frisk and not just stuff so if yougo out and you’re jumping out of the carbecause you know the guy’s got a gunwell you see the guy handed glassine orhypodermic syringe or a gun or a bigknife or whatever the hell it is you getout of the car and you lock him up noquestions if that’s not stop questionand frisk that’s just a collar you gottacall on you chump and you take themright because you’re told you sir Aganasaw a gum whatever this situation youtell the DA I let me tell you his jacketopened up I saw a bulge he adjusted itthat’s not a stop and frisk that’s acollar you know because I see a gun Isee the hand a little gun you know sobut stop question and frisk was it’sdone it was done I think they did like Idon’t know a million of them were fivehundred thousand before the year or twothousand any one here there with thestopping people on and questioning themwhat are you doing here you can’t behere what are you doing here get out ofhere that kind of a situation and if youstopped them and you gave you the rightto question them and when you questionthem and you didn’t like and you wereconcerned for your safety and youthought they had a weapon not drugs youthought they had a weapon that gave youthe right after you stopped them youquestion them to pack themdown so it’s not going inside thepockets and pulling out a handful ofdrugs it’s going feeling for a weaponfrom there you feel through a weapon youcheck and when you question themyou could question I’m not gonna getstuck you have any syringes in yourpockets you got in this you got anyweapons no I got a knife in my rear it’sa switchblade well I got this wellofficer you know I got this of that sodon’t let me find anything on you andthat kind of a talk so that’s the stopquestion and frisk the way it wassupposed to be done the way that youhave it portrayed in the media it’s justthat you you’re everybody’s just againstthe wall it’s a stop and right to thefrisk okay and yeah and you’re goinginside right away now and I always tellthe young cops first of all come safetycomes first if you feel unsafe forgetthe stop question and frisk and all thatshit you unbutton this jacket and you’rereaching and look for the gun becauseyou’re afraid for your personal safetyso if a guy is dancing on the streetwith you and you got him against thewall and you look at them and you get toknow the situations you go in and takeitopen this fucking jacket up and go inand you check them then you tell the DAwhatever you want to tell the DA whenyou go downtown you write up your arrestyou tell him you tell him the truth Ifelt uneasy he was doing this and thenwith his hands and someone said Ithought he had a gun I went in and hehad three bundles of narcotics now if hewants to throw the case out god blesshim throw the case out but you went inthere with safety on your mind that’swhat it’s for stop question and frisk isto clean the streets safety for theofficers and that’s what you use it forso you know and it just got a bad rapyou know and it was it was the major oneof the major tools for the for lawenforcement for especially in the busyareas well and my other question thankyou for that answer my other question iswell I have a few questions for you butI’m trying to I’m trying to prioritizethem the you know where as Steve and Ihave seen these videos of officers inNYPD today and I’m just trying to getyour opinion on this from an old-schoolcopperthere have been videos and I’m sureyou’ve seen them where the where coppershave been in fights on the street andthe partner officer is just kind ofbeing relaxed today school about it notgetting involved and jumping on theradio and not really getting in the mixwith it what’s your take on that haveyou seen those videos yeah I have sawsome a lot of those and then I also sawa lot of the cops getting doused withwater and all that kind of nonsense youknow and and that’s the shame and that’sreally part of training because whathappens is that you know I always wentback to I did an article on theaggressive patrol versus non aggressivepatrol and do is in watches some of thecops are do is you know the tougher guysand and those are the guys who you knowthey rip people to the ground they makethe arrests somebody looks at themcrooked they collar them up at that kindof a situation you know and they’realways hunting for guns and collars andeverything else and those here toughguys and then they had the other guyswho who don’t and that separationalthough it might be a little bit unfairthe aggressive against the unaggressivecop but the idea is because with lesscrime out there less things going onmore of a community service kind of asituation when you encounter thosethings they go into a little bit ofshock it’s because of training theiryoung yeah I’m properly trained and theyjust have to know if you have to walkaway it’s it’s not the worst thing my myfeeling this is only my personal feelingjust go back up a little bit it’s okayyou know grab your partner or whateverit is you know but that radio with yourlifeline you got guys out there that arechomping at the bit you tell them youneed an 85 you know you need some helpget the words out of your mouth and thenwhen you’re the tough guys come maybeyou’re a little young and you knowyou’re getting rattled whatever thesituation might be the tough guys willhandle it and some of the tops you knowthey’re just not I don’t want to say nottough enough they’re just not trainedenough toyou know to roll them over and get inthere and help cuff it happens but Igotta tell you it happens very very veryrarely does it happen it’s not somethingthat’s rampant it’s just that thecameras out there get you know they’vegot hold of those kind of things in itbecause all of the social media and butthere are so many young people out theretoday and mature guys that are kickingass out there and YPD all over the placeI mean we have websites a few of themvalid beyond the line of duty and validpolice valourit’s an NYPD site and they show gunsguns guns are taken you know dozens andtons of guns walk the streets every daysome good collars the cops are gettinginto shootings and they’re doing a goodjob it just so happens that they know somany people with cell phones out therethose are the ones that make socialmedia where maybe the cop didn’t takeproper action you know maybe just notyou know you know I always have fallsback on the supervisors I’m sorry to sayand I was one of them you gotta justmake sure you’re there on every job tellthe people to call you right away quickand you better be there I mean I hadsome CEOs some precinct commanders hewanted you on every job every single jobevery gun run you run from one to thenext to the next and you better be therewhen the shit goes down so when theSarge is there you take charge and youhelp them and as soon as you see alittle bit of a crowd you put the giveme some assistance give me some backupand you put it over your radio orwhatever your your code might be and youand the COS will come running and letthem do it for you you know and then Ialways told the young people back thenand the young people did I make you somehelp out today I says when the Caray docars show up just point them out him himand are and you point them all out Istart taking them and those are yourcollege those your arrests and you seethem what they did to the officerswho they went back into the crowd andwhatever the situation might be but it’sunfortunate and I feel bad for the youngpeople today but I want you tounderstand and I know firsthand that isnot the way it is 99.9% of the time thecops are tough they’re tough youngpeople out there and they are doing thejob well as an old school watchcommander what would you do today if ifthe coppers came into your station andthey’re just drenched in water of coursewith every every boss would do let’s goback out change your clotheslet’s go back out again yeah come pointthem out and they’ve gotta go I mean theother one can go today or tomorrow Imean I don’t care today tomorrow nextweek and you put down on your report ofcourse to ease to the complaint reportthe crime report that’s a crime ofcourse and you put fill it out and threemale White’s did this to me or threemale blacks or three Spanish or aleavener than some itself and I don’tcare when it is they have to be schooledI want them in you know and they do youhave to you have a lot of investigatorsaffected they go back on they get themyou don’t hear a lot about that ofcourse but those cops that are involvedand they’re on TV and on the socialmediathey’re called upstairs they’re squallto the squad rooms let’s sit down wetalk let’s pick them out and then goback and get it but you don’t hear aboutthat you know that you got him but thatthat would be my answer to it like wealways say everybody goes one way oranother you got to go and those are thepeople and you go when you take them youknow and you do what you got to do withthem and whether it’s a summons adisorderly conduct obstructinggovernment administration whatever itmight beharassment up to the offices whateverassault you know of course assault andthey get away on you and these thingsbut these things do happenbelieve me having involved in enoughincidents where you putting whoopingpeople against a wall and there’s two orthree of you or four of you and they’vegot 20 people well you got him you gothim at gunpointand they hands her up against the walland then they stop peeling go off onthey start running one on one end one onthe other and they go then another onegoes now what do you doyou start beating them all up you gotyour gun in your hand you’re gonna shootthem you know and you don’t know if theygot weapons in that so with these thingspolice work I always said is ugly worknobody wants to get collared nobodywants to get arrested these people knowif they’ve run they get away a lot ofthe times they get away and I neverwanted my guys to try not to getseparated when we were doing now I’lljump sell collars and such but so theyknow that and it’s not so easy and tocollar somebody you see a big guy hedoesn’t want to get collared five copsare rolling around with one guy tryingto cover this the way it is it’s uglyyou know but one way or another you gotto get him to go and you do it as quickas you can without making it a tooexplosive you know a community incidentif you can’t and my thing you know wedid boxing and the use of the nightstickand everything else when we learned wewere young people I’m sure they’re doingthe same thing with the batons and thespecial batons my thing always was yougot to be a good wrestler you got towrestle these people to the ground andcuff themthat’s your deal wrestle them cuff themand then make sure you get the gun youknow man that would be such a good partto can if there’s like you know the copswith their heads down getting waterpoured on him then NYPD made their ownvideo then this happened because the coprighteously smacking the hell out of him[Laughter]you know the my personal opinion is ifthe cops said hey I need a backup hereI’m getting doused with water and thecops came in in force and justDonnybrook happened that wouldn’t Iwouldn’t have a problem with that at allno not at all yeah yeah it’s very verytrue and you know today it’s becausecrime is really down and a lot of it ishang out young people especially youngpeople maybe in minority communities sothey’re hanging out having a good timeand they and they sighs you are prettygood I know where you guys came you knowyou see most of the officers they havethe medals above their fields abovetheir badges right and in New York youknow they do i i’m not sure around thecountry a lot of them too iswell and they size up the cups prettywell and they can see on behind thefield that the backing plate where themedals go they see that they don’t seeanything therehe has no medals so when they see a copwith he’s got medals and so he might beon foot patrol you know they usuallyleave them alonehe looks a little more sure than thatthe word is you know don’t fuck withthat guy because he’s gonna take us he’sgonna call for help or he’s gonna beatus up himself he’s gonna shoot us he’sgonna kill usthis guy’s a killer especially a lot ofthe young people they said no no watchthis one watch this one you know but youget a guy who’s a kid a young cop maybea young female officer unfortunately ormaybe a young police officer and helooks a little green you know and thenand he’s walking his foot post you cantell he doesn’t have any medals he’s nota tough doesn’t appear to be that toughand you sort of test him a little bityou know and maybe you can make a fewjokes and stuff like that about them youknow and so they sort of feel you outand it’s a shame you know and and it’sit’s a little bit of a problem but Idon’t want you to think that that’s soprevalent today it’s not it is notprevalent today it’s not like that it’sjust in a handful of cases you know youknow they can you got to get your streetcred I used to work with the guy thatworked in a Kingston New York which is asmaller city but still a city and hesaid oh yeah it’s busy yeah you said itwas it was like that there he said youwhen you were new you kind of if someonetested you you kind of had to hammer himbecause otherwise it’s just gonna makeyour career terrible they kind of had toknow that you handled your business andyou know he would go to projects he saidand uh you know you might be going intoa projects for a domestic or somethingand you know a gallon of piss would comeout of the fifth floor and explode onthe sidewalk and it’s like hmm like hesays and years back what it was they notonly through the bricks and things offthey and they and a lot of times theywould wait to you get away from theradio cause because they don’t want toget charged with murder and they used tohit the radio cause with cinder blocksand they said to smash their Radio cardsfrom you know four or five six storiesup let’s go then we had it after we yeahyou know we had a we had a lock-up asmany people as you can when you gotcaught in that situation but then afterit was all over we had to go up on therooftops and do Ruth Patrol to clean offto the rooftops have all the bricks andthrowed him down into the alleywaysbecause they would bring him up thereand have them all lined up so when thepolice would come through they’d hit himwith bricks and cinder blocks and shitlike that and of course you get shotscoming off the roof it was always thatstuff for years back but in today totoday you know it’s the same situation adifferent level of question yeah jeez abrick will kill you just as quick as abullet if it hits you in the head ohit’s silentoh yeah that’s Peter do you have we havea lot of listeners who are younger folksgetting getting into the career do youhave some advice you could impart onthem yeah you know I have to tell youand I talk to people all the time andand I would say when you’re gonna comeon the job you know when you’re ifyou’re a civilian you’re youngsteryou’re in school high school or collegeor something like that you try to keepyourself as clean as you cannobody’s perfect you’re going to getinto trouble you’re gonna get intotrouble in high school driving and stufflike that I got summonses all the timewhen I used to race around in my hot redhot rods when I grew up I had long hairyou know back in the 50s and such and sowhat it was is that I I tell them try todo the best you can to stay out oftrouble no one to walk away I saidthat’s not for me man that that this isnot my cake I don’t want no part of thatso you try to I try to tell them ifyou’re thinking of law enforcement orany career try to stay out of troubleand the question is can you do it canyou stay out of trouble and that’s thequestion you have to assent it are yougood enough and and of course you alwayscome with something when you go throughyour investigation there’s alwayssomething when they do the investigationthey check your school teaches yourneighbors so maybe some of you strayed alittle bitbeing used foul language that in troublein school a little bit the bear drivingrecord and maybe you got pushed aroundby the police it’s on a juvie record orsomething like that you know that’s notgonna disqualify you from the job youknow and I tell them try not to lie nottoo much anyway when you come with youdo with your investigationnow we think today they got they gotlie-detector test I got all this shitthere so if you had some drinks that’sit but you didn’t want to tell me youlove to drink he says you know it reallywasn’t my gig you know I said I trieddrinks of course and then it comes tothat thing with the marijuana we ofcourse you didn’t you could say cocaineis something you’re done you know but ifyou you saying about the marijuana youknow you’re trying to talk about the useof you know smoking a joint or somethinglike that so if they’re gonna get you ona what-do-you-call-it polygraph theysaid that could be a problem you know soyou got to know what they’ll accept andwhat they don’t accept you know so ifthey you think they’re gonna take awhile you were in college you triedmarijuana you know if you try cocaineyou’re done so you might as well just alot it’s up if you try coca dope you’redone but if you’re gonna say you had ajoint in marijuana it really wasn’t forme but we’re at a party peer pressure Iapologize for it but I took a joint wellthey’re gonna tell you right awaythey’re gonna come back at you and saydoes that mean when you come on thepolice department and you see corruptionand you’re gonna go along with it or areyou gonna report it you know that kindof a situation so you know you you’renot gonna be perfect but I tell them tryto be as clean and as physically fit asyou can now if you want to do somethingelse in your life that’s not going tobar you from you know from getting thatjob know what the qualifications are andtry to keep yourself you know in linefor the job you’re looking for andthat’s just law enforcement you knowabsolutely great advice Peter thank youand I wanted to ask you um your latestproject you have going on right now theHarlem readers can you talk about that alittle bit where people can get it andwhat it’s all aboutyep Harlem rate is it’s it’s based on mytrue story mindHaddix team up in the Central Harlem upin the 32nd precinct and it’s my we wereone of the first diverse teams in NewYork City history that worked I shouldsay and it’s about the team that wenicknamed the Harlem Raiders and we wentout we wound up making about a thousandarrests with thousands of guns and tonsof narcotics and and we did all sorts ofdifferent kinds of enforcement’sobservations arrests and the street youstop and frisk sort of staying in stopquestion and frisk we made a lot ofthose kinds of collars we pinpointedthat cut product like electron locationsand we really we kicked ass for back inthe day we really and we worked hard andwe accomplished something and and thebook highlights that and I was fortunateenough that I had the opportunity toreally had a bunch of good tough copsand they were tough guys a lot ofmilitary guys ex-military and such andthey you know if they just were a goodbunch of people now we also the thing toit I’ll twist on it was that we workwith community leaders and I had onereally in particular or Rita Smith butwe work with a lot of community leadersand we that the community loved us andyou cannot go into any communityespecially a minority community and ifyou got a majority of a white policedepartment or any Police Department goin and start taking people off thestreet kicking in doors you needcommunity support and we had that thecommunity cheered and this was back inthe day when there was you know race wasa big deal was you know it was black andwhite and it was police against thecommunity we broke down those barriersand had a good pump we went to all thecommunity meetings we worked hard that’sall it was was it just hard work womanno different than anybody else and weaccomplished something we cleaned up abig piece of Central Harlem eliminatedin the Kotik Scott the Mafiaout of there through with the help ofthe DEA and that’s what the book is inthere I got some good DEA Undercovers inthere and they back this up and so thestory is about thatis the Harlem rate isit’s about what we did back in the dayand it relates to today and matter offact that the very beginning of the booktalks about the heroine that comes fromMexico and a couple of Harlem highschool cheerleaders overdosed and diedon a rooftop and that’s how the storykicks off and then an old crippled DEAagent who got shot it’s in the book Idon’t want to give it all away but tellsthe story at a school assembly aboutthis team of people my team and and whatwe did back in the day and yeah and it’sa good story it’s a fun read it’s aquick readit’s a rah-rah it’s a good policingcommunity story it’s a story ofdiversity hope freedom for a communityand I think it’s apropos today ingetting the the police departments towork with their community but kick asswhere necessary you know take actionclean up the community like Chicago godI wish I could go to Chicago and helpthem out with all these shootings theygot it’s it’s like it’s like Harlem andthe New York City back in the old daysand you just got to take control ofthose streets got a pity overtime Idon’t care if you got a big in theNational Guard I don’t care but youcan’t have them hang and hang it out andyou got to take away their guns so yougot to set up checkpointsyou got to target areas you find that ohmy god it’s only a couple mile areawhat’s the bad area well that’s the areayou got a target and clean it up sothat’s essentially I hope the HarlemRaiders is a book that the police willlook into community people and it’s it’sdoing very well it’s well received itviews are great we’re keeping ourfingers crossed some of the movie filmcompanies I don’t want to mention themtoday they’re looking at it so thesaying our prayers that it comes into aa streaming service on TV or a moviemovie when they’re all this stuff thevirus stuff blows over so we’re hopingtheyou know Wow sounds sounds great manwhere can people get it and where canpeople reach us okay you can get thebook at it’s everywhere its Amazon itsBarnes and Noble its target its Walmartso if you just put in Haarlem radiusit’s gonna pop all over the place anyway you can get it and then you’ll seewhen you put in Holland rate is my namePeter Prancer will come up or you canput in my name Peter pranzo and you’llsee this Google my name and the bookwill come up my other books behind theshield a journey through the NYPD that’smy first book and that’s a true accountof my your career there’s a stressmanagement book that I wrote for Gouldpublications a matter of fact right goodchef cool yeah that’s Jeff Gould and theGould family had all the law enforcementbooks and they asked me to write thatbook it’s on stress management for lawenforcement and it’s a suicidepreventative that’s on Amazon and allthe books are all the companies as welland so they can reach it anywherethey’re on everywhere books are soldand it’s I promise you it’s a good readit’s a fun read and yeah and you’ll getgoose bumps and use rah rah rahit’s commute policing community winningover the bay guys awesome I love itKen you got any Steve any more questionsfor Peter ah I was just gonna say weshould have a special session with Peterabout police suicide I think that’s areal relevant subject nowadaysespecially New York City’s reallysuffering with suicides among theirofficers yeah I tell you yeah I wroteabout that my first articles in like1983-84 and we always had an epidemic inthe city now I lost so many people toline of duty deaths but we alwaysoutnumbered suicides always outnumberedline of duty deaths cops would you knowand the cops and military people wouldkill themselves in an alarming rate andI wrote about it and made the newspapersI took a little bit of a flak from itfrom the job for writing about it in thenewspaper but it told it was fine and Iwrote about it for the all the policepublications Pollysince security news police timesCalifornia law enforcement’s thesheriff’s the things that differentdepartments and all the different loosethe magazines put a police a magazineitself so I did all those articles onstress management and suicide preventionand of course it’s its reasons that weall talk about you know but the bottomline is you got the gunyour gun is your friend it’s there it’saccessible it’s an easy end to what’sbothering you it’s a permanent end andand the thing is you know just put inpolice suicides preventive and all thephone numbers are gonna come up in theback of the book I dedicate that to thatI put the phone numbers back in the backof the book for the law enforcement tohave drunk hotlines back there and I gotsuicide the preventive lifelines that’sone eight hundred two seven three eighttwo five five that’s one of them and copwine an officer’s lopped lifeline is1-800 to six seven five four six threeso I have to tell you I spent a big partof my career helping the guys and try tokeep them you know keep them alive isthe main thing you know the career isone thing but don’t end your life youknow and ask for help and my big thingwas for the department you know you keepup your gun but it’s very hard to get itback but you’re alive and they will giveyou your gun back so if you don’t feelright you’ll give me some time offthey’re gonna help you and you’re gonnaget your pension you’re gonna have yourfamily and everything is gonna be finebecause suicide is the last thing youwant to do and I pray for those peopleevery day as much as I pray for the thefolks that are out there doin their jobevery day I pray for the folks that areunder a lot of stress you knowabsolutely absolutely yeah well Peterthank you so much for coming on I’mgonna link in the show notes I will linklinks to all your books and also onthings please see calm I will put linksto all these things we’ve talked aboutand especially like we’re just ending onthey’re the stress managementfor law enforcement that’s it’s actuallybeen adopted by the FBI it’s in their intheir library so that’s pretty cool yepthat was a big thing for us you knowabsolutely well thank you so much forcoming thank you oh hey thank you guysI’m humbled by it I thank you I enjoy itand I appreciate it I hope I contributeit a little bit so she for the youngpeople out there and I thank you so muchfor having me on it’s been an honor andI wish you guys best success with theshow it’s terrific you guys are good andfun and you put a good twist on it and Ienjoyed thank you so much yeah take carePeter great Steve thanks Steven ken Iwish you luck and thank you so muchyou got it guys hey guys I hope youenjoyed the episode if you’d like tosupport the show go over to thingspolice c-calm when you get on thewebsite there’s a few different ways youcan show some support you can donatedirectly you can do a one-time donationor a monthly donation even a buck helpsus keep the lights on over here pays ourexpenses for the month is greatlyappreciated you can also just use ourAmazon affiliate link if you just wantto buy something on Amazon like younormally do just do it through our linkand we’ll get a little kickback for thatso you can go to the website and do thator in the show notes I’ll put a link youcan just click right through that linkand the third way is you can buy somegood buy some merch so we have coffeemugs we have t-shirts men’s and women’sand we also have hoodie sweatshirts nowso go over two things please see calmand check it out you can also justlisten to the podcast there or you canapply to be a guest to scroll down toand click on be a guest and what youwant to do is just give us a briefsynopsis of your of your service howmany years you were on the job and justa very brief idea of the stories you’dlike to share and I will get right backto you so thank you for listeningand we’ll catch you next time[Applause][Music]you[Music]English (auto-generated)